AAC Panels
Last Post 19 May 2008 06:11 AM by cmkavala. 31 Replies.
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cmkavalaUser is Offline
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18 May 2008 08:30 AM

Jelly;

The Panels made by AERCON also have Gypsum in the concrete mix, they are so soft they are easily grooved with a penny

My next door neighbor also has a house in Greece, he says his walls are 2 ft thick stone and never need airconditioning, that is "old school" thermal mass

Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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18 May 2008 08:41 AM
Jelly;

I don't understand the logic?

we pay more for enegy efficient appliances and much for for hybrid cars?

Green building is the fastest growing trend in the US and I think that it will be the norm in the next couple of years.
With that trend will come lower prices for "Green Building" thru competition, 7 years ago our turnkey pricing was about 5% over conventional , now it is only 1% and in some cases on commercial buildings we are far less than conventional, also providing the other benifits that come with SIP construction.





Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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18 May 2008 09:19 AM
Posted By cmkavala on 05/18/2008 8:30 AM

My next door neighbor also has a house in Greece, he says his walls are 2 ft thick stone and never need airconditioning, that is "old school" thermal mass

Yes! I live in an old school thermal mass house at the moment, too. It was built in 1624, and the walls are indeed 2 feet thick.
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18 May 2008 09:34 AM
Posted By cmkavala on 05/18/2008 8:41 AM
Jelly;

I don't understand the logic?

we pay more for enegy efficient appliances and much for for hybrid cars?

Green building is the fastest growing trend in the US and I think that it will be the norm in the next couple of years.
With that trend will come lower prices for "Green Building" thru competition, 7 years ago our turnkey pricing was about 5% over conventional , now it is only 1% and in some cases on commercial buildings we are far less than conventional, also providing the other benifits that come with SIP construction.





Well but it is logical to think that the best method of construction for the environment and it's inhabitants would be the cheapest. For example, farmers in my current community in Bavaria do everything organic - not because it's trendy or healthier, but because it's cheaper. They have always done it that way - when they tried to get them to invest in sprayers and chemistry they said no, because it cost too much.

Chris, I hope you're right about it becoming the norm. But the reality, at least in Louisiana and many other places, is that it wouldn't cost me any less to have you build me a steel SIPS house than it would to have a local contractor build with sticks. Granted, the end product of the steel SIPS house will be astoundingly more efficient, safer, and cheaper in the long run. But what the homeowner needs is a break *right now* as that loan officer is poring over his financial information. Until it costs considerably less for the consumer to have green construction, I'm afraid they will keep going with what they already know, even though it's inferior in every way. Unfortunately that's what they're STILL doing in hurricane- flood- and termite-prone Louisiana.
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18 May 2008 10:47 AM

Larry,

I just sent you an e-mail through this system about my experience with In-Steel.  Let me know if you do not receive it.

I still can not copy text from WordPerfect to this editor.  Can someone tell me again how this is done.  I have tried using Copy and Paste but this forum editor does not paste the text from WordPerfect for me.  I have also tried the method as suggested by the administrator.  What am I doing wrong?  Does anyone else on this forum use their own editor and then copy to this forum?  If so, then how?

e-mail:  alton at auburn dot edu

Alton

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18 May 2008 11:43 AM

Larry,

 

The following I sent by e-mail.  I am sending this by using Word instead of WordPerfect to see if this will solve my problem of copying and pasting.

 

First of all, I think the In-Steel system, properly done with an experienced crew, makes a storm-resistant building.  I also think that it provides a reasonable R-value.  However, in my opinion, there are other systems available that are more storm-resistant and have a higher R-value with a lot less work involved.

 

In the following paragraphs I will try to give you a feel for this system as I experienced it:

 

This system needs to be attached securely to a concrete slab or footer.  For a connection to a slab, rebar can be set into wet concrete or holes can be drilled into the slab and the rebar set with epoxy.  Since the rebars must be set very precisely in a straight line into the slab, it is easier to drill the holes into the slab and epoxy the rebars so that the rebars will fit neatly between the wire mesh and the foam.  If the epoxy way is choosen, then drill the holes for the rebar before the concrete reaches much strength.  Drilling in concrete that has reached it full strength can be very slow depending upon the type of drill bits used.

 

Each panel must be set, braced, and wired together with overlapping mesh.  Setting a panel consists of placing the panel into its correct position with the rebar dowel between the inside mesh and the foam.  Bracing the foam panels should be done from the outside to avoid damaging the concrete floor.  With a level lot and turnbuckles on the braces, this step is easily accomplished.  Without turnbuckles or with long braces because of tall walls, the work load is greatly increased since the panels resist movement.  Tying the overlapping wire mesh is a fairly simple process but very time consuming since it requires so many ties.  Scaffolding will be required if the walls are taller than 8'.  Using the roll-around type of scaffolding works well on the concrete slab.

 

Vertical and horizontal rebar, according to your local requirements and this system, must be inserted between the wire mesh and foam and then tied into place.  A torch is used to melt the foam enough so that shotcrete can be placed around the rebar.  (Loss of R-value.)  Doors and windows require more rebar.  Short diagonal rebars are also required at the corners of openings to control diagonal cracking.  For best results around openings in the wall, use rebar on both sides of the wall.

 

All of the above can be done with an inexperienced crew and one experienced leader provided the plans are detailed properly.  Of course, using the recommended tools will speed up the work.  Only in third-world countries with plenty of cheap labor should this system be used without powered tools.

 

With the panels set, tied together, braced and aligned, and rebar in place, the shotcrete is applied.  Applying shotcrete requires an experienced crew with specialized equipment.  Troweling the shotcrete should be done by experienced people.  Do not let the shotcreter get too far ahead of the trowelers since the shotcrete will set quickly in hot dry weather.  Since shotcreting is very messy for the area and the shotcreter, avoid hot weather for this stage.  Removing the rebounded shotcrete is time consuming and back breaking.  That stuff is heavy and will set up too quickly to be used again.  More than likely, for a nice finish, the shotcreted walls will have to be covered up with some other finish.

 

We used stucco with a sand finish to cover the shotcreted walls inside and out.  We had no trouble blending stucco and sheetrock at the intersecting corners inside the home.  I still see the homeowner occasionally and he still likes this system.  However, he does think that his energy bills should be more reasonable since he did also use a geothermal HVAC system.

 


By the way, I am not trying to discourage anyone from using this system.  Almost any system is light years ahead of stick framing.  But as a consultant, I believe a person should know what he is getting into before the project starts.  In my opinion, this system does not lend itself to a do-it-yourself homeowner with limited skills and tools.

 

In my opinion, thermal mass in a wall does not work well in climates that have long hot or cold seasons.  I believe thermal mass works best where there is a big difference between day and night temperatures.  (See adobe pueblos where the thickness of the walls were determined by the local weather.)  I also believe that controlling air exchanges in a home is far more important than how much mass is in the walls, especially for moderate climates.  As far as foam and concrete walls are concerned, I much prefer to have the foam in the middle of the wall covered with concrete on both sides.  By the same token, in hot climates, I prefer brick, stucco, or concrete for the exterior instead of thinner materials that have limited ability to soak up the heat for the sun.

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18 May 2008 12:48 PM
Posted By Alton on 05/18/2008 10:47 AM
I still can not copy text from WordPerfect to this editor.  Can someone tell me again how this is done.  I have tried using Copy and Paste but this forum editor does not paste the text from WordPerfect for me.  I have also tried the method as suggested by the administrator.  What am I doing wrong?  Does anyone else on this forum use their own editor and then copy to this forum?  If so, then how?

Alton,
I don't have WP, but you should just be able to select the text and copy it to the clipboard(usually Ctrl-C). Then, in the response area paste it back(Ctrl-V). I do this all the time with multiple types of documents.

And these functions(Ctrl-C & Crtl-V) are functions of the operating system, not any particular application.
....jc<br>If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building?
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18 May 2008 07:44 PM

Jelly;

The break is "right now" with the energy savings that will continue after the mortgage is paid off, the increased equity because it is built green and energystar certified.
There are also energy star mortgages that provide financial incentives for customers that build to E star stds.
The state of Louisiana has some of the best rebates in the US, their Dept of Natural Recources has programs to give back about $2,000.avg. for e-star homes

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18 May 2008 08:21 PM
Alton,

Thank you for the cogent explanation.  You got me interested enough that I searched out more information, and I came across this study:

http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/Documents/05/bs05-paper-pt.pdf

Interesting conclusions consistent with your explanation:  Thermal mass is of value in a dry climate with significant, daily temperature swings; it's of less value when the further your average temperature is from your desired inside temperature; it's of less value in warm humid climates; and, it's of decreasing value the further from the equator you go. 

Regarding the In-Steel system, you noted that "there are other systems available that are more storm-resistant and have a higher R-value with a lot less work involved."  What systems did you prefer?

Very respectfully,
Larry
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18 May 2008 09:49 PM

Larry,

I sent you an e-mail as you requested.  It basically contained the same info as my posting.  I will try to send you another e-mail since I have already hijacked this thread enough.

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19 May 2008 02:54 AM
Posted By GeorgiaTom on 05/18/2008 7:44 PM

Jelly;

The break is "right now" with the energy savings that will continue after the mortgage is paid off, the increased equity because it is built green and energystar certified.


When it comes to me you're just preaching to the choir, GeorgiaTom!  :)

But the reality in Louisiana is that you can go to any building site and at least 9 times out of 10 you'll see 2x4 construction.

Maybe we should start a new thread, because we're getting pretty way off the topic of AAC, and I apologize for that.
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19 May 2008 06:11 AM
Posted By Jelly on 05/19/2008 2:54 AM

Maybe we should start a new thread, because we're getting pretty way off the topic of AAC, and I apologize for that.


I'll start affordable green
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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