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How to heat a New Home?

Last Post 07 Jan 2010 11:13 PM by greentree. 9 Replies.

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Uppnorth10 User is Offline

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Posts:5

06 Jan 2010 11:09 PM
I plan on building a new home in the future (1.5 to 2 years from now) I have been going over all my options on how to heat the house and would like to have some feedback. I live in Central Minnesota. We are going to build a Rambler style house with a walkout basement. 1750 sq ft on 1st floor and roughly 400 finished in basement, with the other 1300 unfinished at least a few years. I plan on using Radiant in-floor heating for both levels, Pex in Concrete for basement and Warmboard for 1st floor. (Could the basement radiant be enough for 1st floor also?) The house will be built with ICF walls and possible a SIP roof (If cost permits) We plan on being in this house till we die and we are 30 now, so I am willing to spend more on the foundation/heating now then having to worry about it in the future. Yet cost still has to be reasonable. I plan on being the General Contractor for the home, (used to be an Electrician, so I know something about construction and have the time needed to be a General). The first choice is kind of a no-brainer for me in going with a Natural Gas Water Heater. For both costs and ease of use. The second choice gets a little tougher for me. I like the idea of a Wood Boiler, (I have access to 120 Acres of wood to get wood from) But I find mixed reviews on how safe they are to have (Inside home?) and the smoke/pollutants they create. Plus the area needed for storage tanks worry's me. Another option is to place this in the garage (more Safe?) But again run into the space needed. I also have briefly looked into Solar panels to heat the water, but not sure if we get enough solar days to make them effective in MN. Plus the fact that you would have to run antifreeze in the lines since it drops below freezing for 4-5 months. Any ideas, suggestions, or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Looking to get started in the right direction. Time is on my side still.

Uppnorth10 User is Offline

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Posts:5

06 Jan 2010 11:11 PM
Not sure how to break it up into paragraphs like it showed on the page before submit. I know a lof of you hate reading one long paragraph, as do I

greentree

Advanced Member

Posts:587

07 Jan 2010 08:06 AM
Look at sips instead of icf for your climate unless you're going for a really thick block otherwise your not getting the rvalue you need, you should be shooting for r25 or better; your basement foam on the inside will most likely need to be covered prior to occupancy in the unfinished area. You'll get surcharged for a wood burner by your insurance company. You'll want an r50 roof, how thick of a sip panel is that?

TexasICF

Advanced Member

Posts:622

07 Jan 2010 08:36 AM
The best home money can buy has ICF walls and a SIP roof. Why this is true would take a lot of paragraphs. BYW, if you want a paragraph just hit CR (enter key) twice and continue.

jerkylips

Basic Member

Posts:359

07 Jan 2010 08:52 AM
Posted By Uppnorth10 on 01/06/2010 11:09 PM I plan on building a new home in the future (1.5 to 2 years from now) I have been going over all my options on how to heat the house and would like to have some feedback. I live in Central Minnesota. We are going to build a Rambler style house with a walkout basement. 1750 sq ft on 1st floor and roughly 400 finished in basement, with the other 1300 unfinished at least a few years. I plan on using Radiant in-floor heating for both levels, Pex in Concrete for basement and Warmboard for 1st floor. (Could the basement radiant be enough for 1st floor also?) The house will be built with ICF walls and possible a SIP roof (If cost permits) We plan on being in this house till we die and we are 30 now, so I am willing to spend more on the foundation/heating now then having to worry about it in the future. Yet cost still has to be reasonable. I plan on being the General Contractor for the home, (used to be an Electrician, so I know something about construction and have the time needed to be a General). The first choice is kind of a no-brainer for me in going with a Natural Gas Water Heater. For both costs and ease of use. The second choice gets a little tougher for me. I like the idea of a Wood Boiler, (I have access to 120 Acres of wood to get wood from) But I find mixed reviews on how safe they are to have (Inside home?) and the smoke/pollutants they create. Plus the area needed for storage tanks worry's me. Another option is to place this in the garage (more Safe?) But again run into the space needed. I also have briefly looked into Solar panels to heat the water, but not sure if we get enough solar days to make them effective in MN. Plus the fact that you would have to run antifreeze in the lines since it drops below freezing for 4-5 months. Any ideas, suggestions, or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Looking to get started in the right direction. Time is on my side still. have you looked into geothermal? we're about to start building our house, which is only slightly bigger than yours. The cost of geothermal with vertical wells was around $25,000 vs around $10,000 for a gas furnace. With the 30% federal tax credit, the %25,000 becomes about $17,000. If you're planning to stay in the house forever, you should get your payback out of it. I don't know a ton about wood boilers, but from what I've heard they're much more labor intensive. If you're going to be in the house forever, are you really going to want to feed wood into that thing when you're, say, 70? Also, what about if you leave for a vacation or something? I don't know how you would maintain a temp in the house if you're gone for a week during the winter..

Bob I

Veteran Member

Posts:1435

07 Jan 2010 08:53 AM
The problem I see with the wood fired boiler is that it may not be flexible enough for a very tight, well insulated house. It may work fine when its -25 and windy, but in 20o weather you'll probably get way too much heat, or you'll be dumping extra heat through the chimney. On a sunny mild winter day you may not need any heat until the sun goes down. Maybe a Russian type stove where you build small fires would work better. In any case, figure the capacity for the full 3500 SF of potential space.

Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant

Uppnorth10 User is Offline

New Member

Posts:5

07 Jan 2010 09:51 AM
Greentree....... A 12" SIP would be needed for a value of R50 according to many websites. Which I don't think will be a problem since it does not appear to be a huge jump in cost from bumping up the thickness of SIP. SIP also would work nice in the floor plan since we want to have vaulted ceilings in the open kitchen, dining, great room. I am worried that any Insurance break given for SIP/ICF home will be given back by a wood stove install, something to think about. Jerkylips...... I have only scratched the surface on Geothermal. Not sure the costs, but it may be possible to do a horizontal run instead of verticle, maybe that could save a bit more. The problem I run into is that I am relying on uncontrollable methods for heating my house (Electic) vs a renewable source. But I guess even a wood boiler and storage tanks would require some type of a heating element (Electric) in the storage tanks. The labor involved in the wood process might be beneficial to me since I have a wife and 2 daughters currently, this would give me a chance to get away for a few weekends and enjoy the outdoors. I am sure I will not want to be cutting down wood in my 70's, but in another 40 years, what will it cost to heat a home with electic? Gas? Even if I have to purchase wood in the future, it might be a huge cost savings over other methods since their costs are more of an unknown. When going on Vacations or ETC, I would use a secondary heat source (NG Water heater) Bob I...... The addition of Storage Tanks (500 to 1000 Gallon) would be a place to dump the extra heat to be used later. These storage tanks would also help supply the domestic hot water needs. I have seen many people claim they use their boilers in the summer time and only have to burn a load anywhere between 4 to 8 days to supply the hot water needs. In the winter time a burn can last anywhere from 6 to 12 hours depending on conditions.

jerkylips

Basic Member

Posts:359

07 Jan 2010 10:10 AM
from what I've heard, I think you're right - going horizontal should save you some money. On our lot, it wasn't possible. I know where you're coming from about using electricity. Just some food for thought, my wife & I had some of those same conversations. What we're leaning toward at this point is to do the geothermal & have the house wired for solar electric. Once the prices of the PV systems come down to the point where the payback isn't so long, we'll go that route. Electricity is something that's out of your control, but price swings aren't as drastic as gas can be (those are the only 2 options we're considering) and going with geothermal opens up a little more flexibility down the road. If we aren't using gas & getting our electricity "free", it's the best of both worlds..

jmagill

Basic Member

Posts:374

07 Jan 2010 10:57 AM
Your best Rv value for your money is SIPS over ICF everytime. Can you incorporate solar in the design? Superinsulation and solar is the best. I don't think radiant in the basement will be enough for the whole house unless you want a very warm basement. It will not be comfortable in the long run.

greentree

Advanced Member

Posts:587

07 Jan 2010 11:13 PM
Posted By Uppnorth10 on 01/07/2010 9:51 AM Greentree....... I am worried that any Insurance break given for SIP/ICF home will be given back by a wood stove install, something to think about. I don't think you're going to get an insurance break unless you find a specialty company.