Insulation in 2x6 wall and best 3x5 window for $200
Last Post 29 Jun 2010 11:39 AM by bobarchitect39. 7 Replies.
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WendtUser is Offline
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11 Jun 2010 01:33 PM

Exterior sidding: 2x8 log siding
1/2 to 3/4 inch furing strips
1" Dow SIS
2x6 wall: What is the best insulation besides foam? Since I will be sealing with SIS I feel it would be overkill to go with foam. I live in Pikeville TN 37367.
I will have a sealed crawlspace, vented attic, but R50 insulation. A duct chase will be built in the trusses so ducts will be in conditioned space below the R-50 attic insulation.

I have a 15x 21 room over the garage. keeping it cool/warm is my biggest concern. 

also what windows would you recomend around $200 for a 3x5 single or double hung, for example?

Thank you

David

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11 Jun 2010 03:34 PM
Besides foam, wet-sprayed insulation will give you good performance- the denser the better. Sprayed goods fill the space completely leaving no gaps for convective short-circuits around the insulation, and the denser it is, the less convection occurs WITHIN the fiber layer itself.

Wet spray cellulose blown at over 3lbs density (dried-weight) will give you ~ R20 in 2x6 construction, and provide about as much thermal mass as a 2" concrete slab would (!), which enhances it's real-world performance somewhat. The borate fire-retardents are also toxic to ants & termites (but safe enough for humans to be used in soaps & detergents.) Wet-sprayed new-school superfine fiberglass like JM Spider sprayed at 1.8 lbs density will give you slightly higher steady state R (R23), but with very little thermal mass, won't measurably outperform cellulose in a mixed-climate like yours. At 1.0lb density it's about the same R as cellulose, but will have higher convective loss issues. (Be specific about density when getting quotes for any of it.)

Coarser blown fiberglass goods lose R-value with increasing inside/outside temperature- don't get sucked in by a lower price. Low density dry-blown or low density wet-sprayed cellulose will beat it in real-world performance despite having a 5-10% lower steady-state R. Dense-packed is the way to go if you can, but if you're very price-sensitive, wet-spray cellulose still delivers R20 and low convective loss, and won't settle over time (the water-activated adhesive keeps it from sagging despite not having the springy-compression of dense packing.) Dry-blown cellulose or fiberglass at low density would often have to be topped off in 20-30 years due to settling, but not wet-sprayed.

To perform to spec the R50 in the attic should also be blown-goods, not batts- either super-fine fiberglass or dry-blown cellulose. Batts inevitably have gaps& compressions, and have much higher convective losses than cellulose. The high density "cathedral ceiling" batts do OK, but only when the installation is perfect (yeah, right, "perfect"). The performance of open-blown insulation is highly dependent upon the quality of the installation- it needs to be at the proper density, not "fluffed" or it'll settle dramatically over time (in the cellulose case), or have ridiculously high convection losses (in the fiberglass case.) It should have a very consistent & even appearance on the top surface when done, not super-wavy which would be an indication of performance-robbing thin spots. It also needs to be protected from air-currents at the soffits, or it'll move around on you with wind currents. (I've read recommendations from others on this forum that a light spray-wetting of dry-blown cellulose near the soffits will get it to crust up and won't be susceptible to soffit-air motion.)
WendtUser is Offline
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11 Jun 2010 05:04 PM
Thank you so much Dana1. You are a blessing to me and this board. Your answers are always so thorough.

Would you use batts for the room over the garage or still recomend dense pack? Will it still hold in the part of the roof truss that is a 12/12 pitch before it gets to the 8 ft ceiling? I hope you get what I am trying to say.

Thanks again,

David
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11 Jun 2010 06:32 PM
Batts basically suck. If you can do the job with sprayed-on goods for anything like the same money or even 25% more, do it!

On open angled roof decks it'll hold using "blow in bag" methods, where they staple up some fine mesh to the rafters/studs and cut a small slit for the blowing tube. (Before the adhesive sets up it's not nearly sticky enough to hang onto a 12:12 roof.) You can't really dense-pack wet-spray in walls without blow-in-bag either, which adds another step, more labor, more material, etc, and it's a slower process than when they just stand back and blast away at open stud bays. If this is a section of cathedralized roof that opens into the attic space where you'll be blowing cellulose, dense-packing dry blown in there at the same time that you open-blow the rest should be fine.

In your neighborhood I'm assuming it's similar to Knoxville weather (?), in which case simply dense-packing the cathedralized roof section should work, unvented. If it's cooler there on average than Knoxville in winter we might want to revisit that and spray an inch of closed-cell foam on the roof deck in the unvented section and dense-pack below that. If there's any question, an inch of foam at about a buck a square foot saves a lot of wondering. If it's only 500-600 square feet or less the pros won't touch it without a serious price hike, in which case the 600 board-foot kits from online vendors (Tiger-Foam,FrothPak, Fomo-foam, etc.) start to look pretty good at about a $1.25/square foot per inch. It's probably quicker/easier/cheaper to flash-foam the roof deck than to build-in sufficient ventilation to reliably do without it.
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11 Jun 2010 07:11 PM
Batts basically suck. If you can do the job with sprayed-on goods for anything like the same money or even 25% more, do it!

Dana that may be the most succinct response to batt insulation I have heard in a long time.
Wendt, as to your question about windows for $200, that is tough. Skip the big box retailers. Their product in that price range will be inferior, at best. Investigate your local replacement window companies, to see if they can help you. I know that Window World offers new construction windows. If you cannot find anything you like, email me directly and I will give you the name of a company I buy from occasionally. Your are way out of their normal territory, and so the freight would big factor, but they make a high quality window at a fair price.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
bobarchitect39User is Offline
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15 Jun 2010 10:47 AM
Hey, not the biggest expert on your question but I saw it and figured that I could at least lead you in the right direction to the best selection (where you can see all of your options in terms of style/pricing).  Check out McGraw Hill, which has a selection of all the window suppliers you are going to find on the internet.  Hope this helps...

McGraw Hill Sweets Network



Best of luck!!!
stonecavemanUser is Offline
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15 Jun 2010 09:44 PM
If you haven't framed the spaces yet, hit the boneyards for a couple of good, odd-sized windows.  You can get some good energy efficiency at a low price but have little/no choice of style.  Put them round the back where the won't show or somewhere else where you don't care, and spend the savings on really nice windows - good looking and good specs. -  for the ones that need to look good.
bobarchitect39User is Offline
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29 Jun 2010 11:39 AM
Can't go wrong with that plan!
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