kenora
Basic Member
Posts:145
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| 11 Dec 2010 07:13 PM |
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Just like it says :) This is just north of Kenora, Ontario. Canada. (s/w corner of the long skinny lake north of the construction company)  I have a plan for a 1056 sq ft Cape Cod(ish) style bungalow with a walkout basement. I am planning on bumping out one wall to add a bit more room to the small kitchen and entrance, that will net me about 1200 sq/ft on each floor. (attachment #2) The plan was originally to build a poured concrete basement on a grade beam with piles anchored to rock and 2 x 6 conventional construction on top of that basement. I have been reading everything I can on this site and realized that a) I don't know enough yet and b) I better incorporate some green technologies before I build to keep my expenses in check. I have already decided to add at least 2" of rigid insulation on the exterior of the basement and sheathing. I am considering a GSHP with a lake loop (I am 66 ft away from the lake and have 15 to 20 ft of water about 20 ft out). Although we get 4 ft of ice in winter it never freezes to the bottom, a ground loop is impossible do to solid granite under the house (mind you I have enough sandy loam on top of the sloping lot to accommodate the walkout basement; (drops about 8 ft over 40 ft). No natural gas is available, my current home (next lot to the north) is heated with home heating oil, electricity in Ontario is crazy expensive and although I might consider a wood burning yard boiler I am concerned about feeding it all winter since I'm too old to slog through the snow drifts at 6:00 am and -40c. I will try to just ask one question at a time since my inclination is to ask 100 all at once :) As you can see the house faces east (or E/S/E at best) and has a lot of glass. We REALLLLLY want to keep it as close to this design as we can and hope to retain all these windows, I know that since they face east they will get minimal solar gain. Is there a way to maximize the performance of these windows? I already plan on triple pane low E argon. Any other thoughts? Thanks  |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 11 Dec 2010 08:12 PM |
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I am just guessing here, but I would think that wells would be more efficient than a lake loop where the ice freezes 4' deep. Well drillers do not seem to have any problems drilling through granite where I live. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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kenora
Basic Member
Posts:145
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| 11 Dec 2010 10:23 PM |
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 Thanks for the insight, I think though that it has to be less expensive to just drop the line in the lake since its about $20/ft to drill a well around here with a minimum charge...not sure what it is though. A couple of 300 ft holes is $12000!!!!!!! I am reasonably sure that the lake loop will work, my concern is the windows. If I was on the east shore with a westerly exposure I think I would be better off; needing to find a way to limit heat gain. Looking east I have to reduce heat loss through these windows. fwiw my current house has 16 yr old old triple pane window (no low e, no argon) that's about 10 ft wide. It sheds VERY COLD air at -20c and colder; it feels like its pulling heat out of you, as does the east facing patio door. I use a plastic window film to reduce this heat loss but can't imagine doing that with all the windows in the new place. I hope you don't mind the pictures; I find the old adage true (about them being worth a thousand words). |
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Bob I
Veteran Member
Posts:1435
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| 12 Dec 2010 09:50 AM |
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All windows are not equal. Compare the U value and other aspects of the windows you are planning to buy with other brands. Window companies such as Fibertech can provide you a list of the different insulated glass combinations they use so you can choose the one that suits your situation.
Also, consider having the home modeled on a computer simulation program like REM-Design. That will give you the estimated heat loss, plus informjation such as how much of your heat loss is related to your windows and how much is related to the roof insulation, wall insulation etc. Increasing the values of the other insulation can counterbalance the heat loss from the windows somewhat, but even a triple glazed window with a U=.15 has an insulation value of only 6.6, so it will be the coldest part of that wall.
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| Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant |
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McFish
New Member
Posts:77
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| 12 Dec 2010 01:41 PM |
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If the house can't be designed to face south, (no one cared that my first solar house faced south when the entry street was east); then consider insulating the windows nights and daytime when you're gone with blinds that raise inside the window frames and have a layer of fiberglass or other insulation sown in. Or cut foam boards to size to fit inside the window well. Go back to basics; change the window direction, make the window openings more efficient, make fewer windows, make the insulation of the window space portable/optional. |
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jerkylips
Basic Member
Posts:359
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| 13 Dec 2010 10:58 AM |
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It's pretty much always more cost-effective to conserve energy than to produce it. You're building a small house, so if you insulate the heck out of it, your heating loads should be very low. I started a thread a couple weeks ago, asking Dana about what kind of a stackup he would consider to be efficient & cost-effective. You should read that post, but the general idea was 2x6 construction 24" OC, dense pack cellulose, & I think around 3" of rigid foam. That will get you close to R40 in the walls. With close focus on the details, making sure it's as air tight as possible, you'll have a house that takes very little effort to heat.
In terms of windows, it doesn't sound like you're able/willing to orient the house to get a lot of glass on the south side. In that case, I'd focus primarily on u-values & infiltration rates. Casements & single-hungs will be more efficient that double-hungs because they leak less air. Depending on your budget, consider triple pane windows.
Personally, I don't know if geothermal is the most cost-effective option for you. If you're not opposed to heating with wood (sounds like your concern is going outside to feed it), take a look at something like I've linked below. Wood gasification boilers are very efficient and can be located inside. These systems can be used for radiant heat and to provide hot water. With something like this, you may only need an "emergency" or "vacation" heating system. Electric baseboard heat could be used to keep pipes from freezing, etc., if you're away from home for days at a time.
http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/WoodGasification.aspx |
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adi43d
New Member
Posts:87
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| 13 Dec 2010 11:45 AM |
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I'll second the superinsulation idea. I think an ICF basement with 4" of underslabfoam and a double stud wall for the main floor will be a bit more cost effective than the exterior foamboard but whatever way you chose it'll be fine. After that I doubt geothermal is cost effective even without the boreholes but you'll have to check that.
If you can afford some good windows I think the heatload will be low enough so you don't have to worry about the heating system too much. Some electric baseboards, a wood fireplace for really cold snaps and a couple of solar panels to help with the hot water and you should be fine.
If you want to get a bit more "creative" and lower your heating and cooling costs even more you can fill your entire south wall with solar panels (vertically mounted) similar with factor 9 house:
http://www.riverdalenetzero.ca/REPORTS/The_Factor_9_Home_--_A_New_Prairie_Approach.pdf
for cheaper versions of similar designs you can check:
http://builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/solar_barn_project.htm
http://builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/SolarShed/solarshed.htm
Good luck and keep us posted
adi
http://torontonetzerohouse.blogspot.com/
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| http://torontonetzerohouse.blogspot.com/ |
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kenora
Basic Member
Posts:145
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| 14 Dec 2010 05:38 PM |
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I am unable to face the house south, my wife wants the view to the east and I want to stay married  I have been checking around and found some Jeld-Wen tri-pane lowE argon windows at Home Depot. The appear to be what I am looking for and have a lifetime warranty on the frames and glazing. I also checked with Accurate Dorwin, thinking that the fiberglass windows would be better but was flabbergasted when I was told they only had a 10 year warranty on the glazing.. Lifetime vs 10 yrs....... no contest. Not to mention the fiberglass windows are expected to be about 25% - 50% more that the cost of Jeld-Wen, that's according to the salesman at Accurate who is working on a quote for me. I am almost relieved to hear that GSHP is not required or appropriate since the cost is crazy high! That does leave me in a bit of a conundrum on how I am going to heat though; I don't think the wood gasification thing will work for me (unfortunately) leaving electric. In that regard I plan on at least 2 inches of foam on the exterior of the 2 X 6 walls, with dense pack cellulose insulation in the walls and ceilings; I will consider the double offset 2 x 4 walls as well but that sounds like a lot of extra labour time. I was thinking of having a conditioned crawlspace under the basement (walkout) level, unless that doesn't make sense and a slab with 4" of insulation under it would be better!!?? The reason I wanted a wooden floor on the walkout level was to have the plumbing accessible. I will have a septic field that's UPHILL from the house, that's way uphill from the basement, consequently I think I need a tank under the basement (walkout) floor that pumps up and out. I am way out of my comfort level on that point and just guessing. I know I need to pump up/out of the basement but maybe I don't need a crawlspace to do it. I will have a wood stove in the walkout portion as back-up and supplementary heat. Thanks for the ideas, keep them coming. I read everything on this site and appreciate all the input! |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 19 Dec 2010 11:18 PM |
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Septic tanks NEVER go in or under a house. In your case the tank would probably be 10 feet or so outside the house with a pump in the tank that moves the effluent up to the field level. |
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kschweitzer69
New Member
Posts:64
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| 20 Dec 2010 05:34 PM |
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Give St. James Windows a look into. www.stjamescompany.com: very efficient and affordable. Aluminum exterior/vinyl interior frames R19 value. Double pane or Triple pane low e options Uvalues +-.19. Anderson window 400 series priced out around 18K on my house, comparable st james with better Rvalue/Ufactor ratings and foam filled frames were under 12K. Small company that takes pride in workmanship. I have no affilation to them other than I just put them on my new house and are very happy with them, although house is not completed they were a pleasure to work with. |
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Como
Basic Member
Posts:128
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| 21 Dec 2010 08:42 PM |
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I would have thought a small gasser wood boiler and 500 gallons of storage would do it, you mention wood storage, so why not a wood boiler.
Radiant flooring for heat distribution.
I can understand you want the glass for the view, it come with a downside of heat loss.
Or maybe if you are there most of the time a masonry stove?
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Garth Sproule
New Member
Posts:25
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| 22 Dec 2010 08:16 AM |
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Kenora
My concern with your E or ESE orientation, is that you will very likely have some over heating issues in the long days of summer. Be prepared to pony up for a large AC system... |
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kenora
Basic Member
Posts:145
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| 22 Dec 2010 09:17 AM |
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Posted By FBBP on 19 Dec 2010 11:18 PM
Septic tanks NEVER go in or under a house. In your case the tank would probably be 10 feet or so outside the house with a pump in the tank that moves the effluent up to the field level.
I never meant to imply that the septic tank was goimg to under the house. I only meant that the water from the shower/sink/toilet/laundry would have to be pumped uphill to the septic tank. I have seen several homes built in Winnipeg that have a wood truss floor in the basement that allows access to pipes etc that would normally be buried in the concrete floor. There is usually a 3 - 4 ft crawlspace under the basement (conditioned). My understanding is that I will need a saniflow (or similar) mascerating pump to move these fluids up hill to the tank. The tank will be about 10 ft east of the house and about 3 ft higher than the main floor , the septic field will be another 100 ft east. |
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kenora
Basic Member
Posts:145
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| 22 Dec 2010 09:18 AM |
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Posted By kschweitzer69 on 20 Dec 2010 05:34 PM
Give St. James Windows a look into. www.stjamescompany.com: very efficient and affordable. Aluminum exterior/vinyl interior frames R19 value. Double pane or Triple pane low e options Uvalues +-.19. Anderson window 400 series priced out around 18K on my house, comparable st james with better Rvalue/Ufactor ratings and foam filled frames were under 12K. Small company that takes pride in workmanship. I have no affilation to them other than I just put them on my new house and are very happy with them, although house is not completed they were a pleasure to work with.
Will do....thanks :) |
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kenora
Basic Member
Posts:145
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| 22 Dec 2010 09:22 AM |
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Posted By Garth Sproule on 22 Dec 2010 08:16 AM
Kenora
My concern with your E or ESE orientation, is that you will very likely have some over heating issues in the long days of summer. Be prepared to pony up for a large AC system...
I was hoping that the overhang would deal with most of the heat gain. The deck will be extending 12 ft over the basement level windows, the overhang on the main floor will be about 4 ft over the garden doors. I was considering an extendible awning for the main floor windows if the overhand is not enough. That wouldn't deal with the windows in the dining room though (far right of house, main floor). Not sure what to do there. |
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Garth Sproule
New Member
Posts:25
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| 22 Dec 2010 12:20 PM |
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Many believe that east facing windows are less troublesome than west facing windows, but the reality is that they both receive about the same amount of direct gain solar energy. Overhangs don't help all that much. This has to be dealt with somehow. No such issues with south facing glass and proper overhangs. |
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Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
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| 22 Dec 2010 05:03 PM |
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Posted By Garth Sproule on 22 Dec 2010 12:20 PM
Many believe that east facing windows are less troublesome than west facing windows, but the reality is that they both receive about the same amount of direct gain solar energy. Overhangs don't help all that much. This has to be dealt with somehow. No such issues with south facing glass and proper overhangs.
East facing windows DO receive the same amount of energy as west facing windews, but the effect of that heat-input on the peak cooling load is lower (usually substantially lower), due to the outdoor air temperature and the accumulated heat in the roof at the time of day that that solar gain is experienced. This is not a trivial second-order factor. After a night of radiant cooling the roof/attic and exterior walls of the building, as well as the air temperature are all cooler as the sun comes blazing through the east windows. But after a day a sun-soaking the air temps, attic temps, and siding temps are all higher as the afternoon/evening sun comes through the west windows- the cooling load from other sources is much higher than when the east-windows are taking on that gain. Total energy may be the same, but the peak rate at which you need to remove heat to stay comfortable goes up markedly with west-windows, and is largely unaffected by east windows (unless it's quite a bit of east window area.) Exterior-movable/adjustable (or seasonal-biological) shading is useful for managing those east & west facing gains. Otherwise the total heat gained is about the same on March 20th as it is on September 20th, often a useful heat gain in March (in the northern hemisphere temperate latitudes), but not so much in September. Overhangs on the southern windows have similar seaonal heating/cooling tradeoffs, where too much or not enough can cost you in either heating or cooling, since peak cooling season typically occurs weeks after the highest arc of the sun, yet there's often still a space heating load the same number of weeks prior to the peak solar height. It's always an optimization-game. |
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Lee Dodge
Advanced Member
Posts:714
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| 22 Dec 2010 07:11 PM |
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Lot's of glass, but looks like a beautiful location. With your northern location and E/S/E windows, I would suggest using a computer model like RESFEN to see if you might benefit from high solar gain windows. It looks like you might get good solar insolation, but don't know the details for your area. Generally you can increase solar gain a lot for a small increase in the U-factor. Getting lots of warm sun in the morning might be nice in the cool times of the year. In the U.S., you get low solar gain windows if you don't make a fuss to get high solar gain, but not sure in Canada.
I have had good luck with cellular shades with the side seals (e.g., Comfortrack) to add about R2.8 to my windows, and to allow control of solar gain when it is not desired. For my 41" x 59" windows, the cost was about $130 per window, so not free, but they make the house more comfortable, and reduce heat losses (and gains when down in the summer).
Lee |
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Lee Dodge,
<a href="http://www.ResidentialEnergyLaboratory.com">Residential Energy Laboratory,</a>
in a net-zero source energy modified production house
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Garth Sproule
New Member
Posts:25
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| 23 Dec 2010 09:32 AM |
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Dana 1
Thank you for correcting me re: "peak rate". But if total insolation is the same with E and W facing glass, won"t the cost of removing this heat in the summer be the same? The size of the AC unit could be smaller with the E windows, but the power bill will be the same, no? I still believe that proper orientation of glazing has a major effect on not only utility bills, but comfort and control issues as well?? |
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vdubbin
New Member
Posts:13
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| 30 Dec 2010 02:12 PM |
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Posted By Dana1 on 22 Dec 2010 05:03 PM
... It's always an optimization-game.
To chime in on the optimization game and to shamelessly plug a project I am working on - I was researching the overhang/window optimization problem and did not find the resources readily available (i.e. cheap or free). So I created my own computer program to try model this. By taking the sun's location in the sky and correcting for atmosphere (distance, not clouds/haze), incident angle, and the shadow cast by a specific overhang you can model the solar energy hitting a surface.  I put this together in a decent, hopefully intuitive, graphical system. Again, this was originally only for my benefit but I went ahead and packaged it so that others may be able to use it. Its free, its fun, please use it, anyone (yes, I’m begging)… If you are ambitious and want to try this yourself you can download the necessary components from my project website "87oaks.com" by looking for the "SolarCalc" section. This is by no means a commercial product and it will not do everything but it is fun and will give you things like a cool 3D view of the incident energy on the surface in question. You can also export the data to excel for further manipulation.  The solar model should work for any location in the northern hemisphere (I did not build the necessary trigonometry-checks for southern hemisphere folks). As may be clear I just want somebody to use it so if you do give it a try I promise to help with tech-support, etc. if needed. Cheers, -Jeff |
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