Attic insulation
Last Post 06 Jan 2011 08:03 PM by matteo. 6 Replies.
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kschweitzer69User is Offline
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18 Dec 2010 09:01 PM

Wanting to get thoughts on the proposed attic insulation senerio for my new home construction. As mentioned on previous posts we are building a new home with 2" polyiso exterior insulation. House is framed with 2x4 walls and the plan is to dense pack wet cellulose in wall cavities. We plan to spray foam the rim joist band board and place R50 dry cellulose in the attic. For the walls is there any reasons that I should consider spray foam instead of cellulose. I think the spray foam cost $2K more. Seems to me the performance difference in the two would be marginal with the 2" polyiso exterior. In the attic I'm a bit confused as to what depth the cellulose needs to be dry blown in at to achieve R50 after settling. We have a couple of vaulted ceiling areas, framed by 2x10's the installation installer wants to net that area and blow cellulose in to allow drywall installation afterwards. My problem with this is after settling I'd think I'd be lucky to have R30 in that area. Vaulted ceilings are a natural trap for warm air anyways and I think it's imperitive to insulate that best. To spray foam those areas they want another 1K. Is there any better solutions to cellulose this area? Can it be wet sprayed like the walls? Thanks again for all your contributions.

Dana1User is Offline
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20 Dec 2010 03:11 PM
Blown in net in the vaulted it can be dense-packed to 3lbs+ density for ZERO settling potential. Even if done to 2-hole method densities the amount of settling you'd see over the first century would be less than 5%, maybe even less than 2% since the depths are so low. (It might sag 5% at those densites over a few decades in a 10' tall wall cavity with the weight of the material compressing it, but not in a 10-25" deep vaulted section.)

Installed at 1.5lbs nominal density (typical open-blow spec for attics), if you started out at ~14" (~R50) in an absolute worst-case scenario might settle to 11" (~R40), in 20 years. It would have to compress to 8", to drop to R30, at which point it would be nearly at dense-pack density, which literally CANNOT happen on it's own. Competent installers will go by both dry weight and a higher initial depth to guarantee the long-term R-value.

It's perfectly fine to wet-spray vaulted areas, provided you give it sufficient drying time before closing it in. In studwalls drying time varies from a few days to maybe a week under average temperature & humidity conditions. It may be a coupla weeks in a 15" vault it it's only exposed to air on one side. In an open-blow attic, no problem.
kschweitzer69User is Offline
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20 Dec 2010 05:24 PM
Great! that gives me some piece of mind. I did just learn that space is actually 2x12" instead of 2x10" so that gives us a little more insulation value. For the open blow area should I demand a depth more than 14" to achieve settled R-values? Any other detail I should be weary of for the open blow. I thought I would spray foam beads around can lights, anything else I should look for? In my attached garage area is it worth doing cellulose or would fiberglass batts be sufficient?
PatHIversonUser is Offline
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20 Dec 2010 05:50 PM
You might want to get a quote from these guys;spray foam insulation. My parents used them and recommends them to everyone... It's a green product to help with the environment.

kschweitzer69User is Offline
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20 Dec 2010 07:45 PM
Pat-Thanks, but this looks like a do it yourself solution and more expensive than I can have someone come and do it for.
Dana1User is Offline
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21 Dec 2010 11:58 AM
Posted By kschweitzer69 on 20 Dec 2010 05:24 PM
Great! that gives me some piece of mind. I did just learn that space is actually 2x12" instead of 2x10" so that gives us a little more insulation value. For the open blow area should I demand a depth more than 14" to achieve settled R-values? Any other detail I should be weary of for the open blow. I thought I would spray foam beads around can lights, anything else I should look for? In my attached garage area is it worth doing cellulose or would fiberglass batts be sufficient?

Tell them what your settled-depth goals are, and let them do the calc on lbs and inches.  If you measure it yourself later  (or put some depth markers every 2" or so on trusses etc. for later verification), if it's 14" or less, ask them what the rated R per inch is of the stuff.  It varies a little bit from vendor to vendor, but R3.2/inch at initial blown density would be on the very low side, R3.4-3.5 would be more typical, and at settled density you can be in the R3.6-3.7 range. Nationall Fiber specs 14.5" initial depth for an R49 at a settled depth of 13.1" (see: http://www.greendepot.com/greendepot/assets/images/docs/CelPak_SpecSheet.pdf ) So for a target-R of R49  using their goods you'd blow it to 14.5" (~ R3.4/inch) and expect it to settle to 13.1" (~ R3.7/inch) over the next decade or two.  In fact it'd start out at about R52-53-ish if you actually measured it, to settle in at R49.

If you use somebody who has been in the business for quite awhile and has good references you'll probably be starting out at 15-16" to hit R50-settled.  If it's under 14" or less, pull the spec for the goods.

I'm not sure fiberglass batts would be any cheaper than doing it in cellulose in an open blow. The bigger the project, the better the price per square foot x R.  The performance of R49  batts isn't so great with bigger delta-Ts and the installation has to be perfect-fit & gap-free to hit the performance of even R38-ish levels with higher-density blown goods.  If you're less concerned with the semi-conditioned garage area and want to save money, blow it to R40 with cellulose i

When they're done blowing the attic it should look fairly planar & smooth on the top surface of the cellulose, not huge waves or lumps:  http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...TUFFw_u1DA
matteoUser is Offline
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06 Jan 2011 08:03 PM
Thank you for the information. This is really reliable. It's expensive.. but if you're really into this stuff, it'll be worth it.
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