Hi all, So Im building a small cabin out here in Western Massachusetts and Im using piers for the foundation. A deck built above them will be the floor. The cabin isnt for year round residency, and there will be no bathroom in it, just a sink. Im expecting one in drain, and one out drain. I want to figure out a way to keep this drain from freezing so there can be water in the winter. As its a pier foundation, the pipes will have to enter into the frost layer at some point. I've heard some about insulated "hotboxes" and Im wondering if any one has any advice out there about types/techniques. The complicating factor is there wont be electricity, taking heat tape and a light bulb out of the picture. Does anyone know of any ways to keep water pipes from freezing using a hotbox or not that doesnt rely on electricity? A trickle system? I know I could do something with a cistern in the cabin, fill that up, then drain the pipe after each use. Any other options that people know of that dont require a cistern? Thanks so much, Dan

The water will freeze in the trap, so the easiest way to prevent freezing is to be sure the trap is empty, so install a trap with a drain plug, open it, drain the water into a bucket & leave it open when you leave. I'm unclear if you're planning to use a faucet, although I would guess not. If you do that could be a problem area so use a simple (hose style) faucet & leave that open also.

add antifreeze to the trap when you leave it for the weekend.   Make sure the suply side drains completely or plumb in a air conection and use a oil free compressor to blow it out. 
Done

Cheers,
Eric

Really should have some more info. Since you are not having a bathroom, I would assume that the "drain" is not going to a septic tank. In that case leaving the drain clean out open is fine. If it is going to a septic tank use RV antifreeze as you don't want sewer gases coming up while you are gone! Hot boxes are heated. One method we use to protect cattle waterers from freezing is to use a large diameter (2') plastic culvert around the inlet pipe and seal it to the bottom of the waterer. This pipe goes down about 8'. This allows the natural heat from the earth to keep the water from freezing.

I do not believe there is much need for a trap in the waste line if the water does not go to a sewer or septic tank.

Posted By Alton on 02 Mar 2011 07:50 PM
I do not believe there is much need for a trap in the waste line if the water does not go to a sewer or septic tank.

Probably not, however is it is just hanging out the side of the cabin a trap would stop most wind and insects.

FBBP,

I agree that a trap would help stop most wind and insects.  I guess I was thinking that the waste line would run underground to grade.  If so, then the end of the line could be covered with a stainless steel screen.

One way to have a trap that does not hurt to freeze is to form one out of Uponor's PEX-A.  The water in the trap can freeze but the line will not split.

Thank you all,

Hose style faucet would work just fine.

No, there will be no septic, the waste line will just be "hanging out the side of the cabin" or something only slightly classier. A trap at the end of the line sounds like a promising idea, stainless steel screen or something else thats similar.

A friend has described to me ways of super-insulating the inlet pipe that wouldnt need a light bulb or heat tape. By building a rot-proof box (PT wood, or even a concrete cylinder) that goes down to frost line (4 ft. here), you can then wrap the inlet pipe in thick pipe insulation, line the box with rigid foam, and then blow the whole thing full of cellulose and you have a cozy little warm home in there for the pipe. No electricity, no problem.

I have to figure out the placement of the drains and the exact method I'll use for draining them.

Also have to figure out if there's any valid way to get the water from the well to the house without using an electric pump, nor some type of cistern system. I dont know if such options even exist . . .

Thank you again.
Dan