getting ready to build
Last Post 09 Mar 2011 07:47 AM by cmkavala. 10 Replies.
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diamonddave1967User is Offline
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07 Mar 2011 06:59 PM

My wife & I are getting ready to build our house. One of our biggest desires is energy efficiency-we want low power bills to carry us into old age. I have done some research (too much?) to the point where I am confused. At 1st I settled on SIP; they seemed like a great product & worth the cost. But my builder-being old school-is not too familiar with them & is pushing me towards spray-in foam insualtion.

He did a little looking into about SIPs & stated that the extra cost would be way high; that he would still have to frame the inside, what about the water spigots that go outside, what if there was water damage, etc.

I am not that knowledgeable about the product but I have emailed a supllier asking some questions. Such as; one states I definately need a truss. The other states he has built over 100 SIP homes & I definately don't need a truss.

I also am fairly certain that the foam insulation will be more than SIP although my builder says no.

It is a 3 floor with the bottom floor being a walk-out basement done with Superior Walls. The total living space is between 5200-5400 sq. ft.

At this point all we truly want is a very energy efficient home while being affordable (affordable meaning the best deal of the 2).

I know this is kind of jumbled but if I could get some unbiased opinions of the 2 which could help me decide that would be fantastic.

AltonUser is Offline
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07 Mar 2011 07:49 PM
Can you tell us approximately where you will be building?  Knowing the area we may be able to be more specific with technology and its cost. 

Even an old school builder can sub out the installation of almost any type of alternative building system.
Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979
Bob IUser is Offline
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07 Mar 2011 08:15 PM
SIPS is a good product if installed by the book and a disaster if it isn't, so when you build with SIPS, hire an experienced installer with an excellent reputation. (I'm not a SIPS installer) Its also one of the more expensive ways to build a low energy house, compared to double stud or stud wall with foam. On the truss question, you need to hire a structural engineer familiar with SIPS who can answer that question and stamp your plans, or have the manufacturer stamp them.
I was called to look at a 1982 timber frame house where the roof panels had deteriorated. They hired a large residential building firm who subbed out the SIPS replacement to a dodo. The house has huge air leaks and is going to be expensive to repair. The panels weren't installed perfectly in 1982, hence the problems twenty later, but the second time was far worse.

Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant
nhgeo1User is Offline
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07 Mar 2011 08:36 PM
My wife & I built our house 1 year ago.  We were also looking to make it more Energy effecient than green.  I looked at SIPS, and although I wanted to do it, the cost kept us away.  As we were planning on a geothermal unit for heat, my research led me to understand about the building envelope and how tight it needs to be.  We used the Zip Wall, Roof, and flooring along with 2 x 6 studs.  While the house was framed, I stoppedin each night & weeked and personally applied caulking to all spaces & gaps.  It cost me just my time & 2 cases of caulk.  I'll never be able have access to the studs like I did then.

We had 3" of Spray Foam insulation applied to the basement ceiling, all exterior walls and the roof.  We then added in insulation so that the basement ceiling was an R30, the Exterior walls were R-30 and the roof R-60.  Knowing that the house was going to be very tight, we planned on have an air handler to exchange the air.

I am happy to report that we acheived all of our building goals.  Our highest heating bill for the geothermal has been $81 in December.  We keep the house at 72 with NO setbacks.  My heating bill for this year from November 1, 2010 to today is $231.40.  Cooling the house last August with all the heat, again we had no temp setback and kept it @ 72 degrees cost $15.86

The building envelope is very crucial to how well a house becomes effecient.


diamonddave1967User is Offline
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08 Mar 2011 03:32 AM
We will be building in SC. & I am concerned about it being subbed out. 2 suppliers I have been in contact with (probably on this forum) gave signifigantly different prices & methods. To have them do the install would add on the price signifigantly, as well. Which is why my contractor is pushing me to foam.
diamonddave1967User is Offline
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08 Mar 2011 03:34 AM
nhgeo, can you tell me which part of the US you live in? I hear geothermal install & unit is very expensive which wouldn't be viable for us. I was wondering if I could get similar heating & cooling bills with foam, extra caulking, etc. like you did.
wesUser is Offline
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08 Mar 2011 07:53 AM
dave,
I doubt that geo thermal would be cost effective for you in SC. Especially if your home is built correctly (ie: well insulated and tight). I am a big believer in SIPS and/or ICF construction. As to your 'truss or not truss', that is entirely dependent on your house plan. Remember, there are a variety of ways to carry the roof load that do not involve the use of traditional 'trusses'. Have you plan checked out by a knowledgeable engineer.
Personally, I would prefer an ICF basement rather than Superior Walls. My experience with them has been fairly negative. The local mfgr/installer can not keep them square or level. This problem may not be universal, but my experience has been limited to this one supplier. And lastly, yes, in my area, foam insulation is more expensive than SIPS.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
cmkavalaUser is Offline
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08 Mar 2011 08:07 AM
Dave;

this "cut up " roof was done by a "do it yourselfer" in South Carolina with 4" SIP  walls and 6" SIP roof, 2 story / 3 story in back with walk out basement , tallest wall in back was 35 ft. tall





Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
nhgeo1User is Offline
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08 Mar 2011 08:34 AM
Dave,
We live in Central NH. I don't know what type of house you are looking to build or how big. Ours is 2200 SF, open concept w/2 floors. In working with the architect, I had passive solar incorporated into the design of the house. I also did enough research to know that for the Geo to work properly, I needed a very tight building envelope, proper windows for the solar gain, and the correct insulation package. Just remember that the tighter the house, the more important it is to design fresh air exchange!

I would think you could acheive low energy bills with a very tight envelope, & proper insulation.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Geo out of the picture. You get 30% back in Fed tax credit, and could build the cost into the mortagage. As we plan on being in this house for the next 20 + years, the benfits of Geo outweighed the upfront costs. I would think Geo would be agreat fit for your climate as you have more cooling need than heating.

My experience has taught me to do as much research as possible, and to interview as many contractors as possible. We talked to over 30 GC's before we settled on the the one we used. The same with a Geo system. I looked at a lot of companies and asked a lot of questions. Companies that did not take time to answer me or did not know, were dimissed from our list.

My prime example is my MIL renovated a farm house next to ours as it was being built. She and her GC did not do enough "homework" and her geo install has been a nightmare. She ended up hiring our geo co to fix all the problems. I also looked into that company, but they didn't anwers my questions and I didn't feel comfortable with them.
diamonddave1967User is Offline
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08 Mar 2011 06:58 PM
Chris, perhaps I could give my contractor your #. I do have a quote from you. He brought up alot of points that he had concerns on that I couldn't answer.

Also, I know of 3 people that have used Superior Walls & were very happy (still are) with them but they did mention problems with the leveling. It is somwthing I will be sure to watch out for. I would love to use ICF but the cost is just too much for me.
cmkavalaUser is Offline
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09 Mar 2011 07:47 AM
Posted By diamonddave1967 on 08 Mar 2011 06:58 PM
Chris, perhaps I could give my contractor your #. I do have a quote from you. He brought up alot of points that he had concerns on that I couldn't answer.
Dave;  absolutely, it is why I have all my phone numbers on my correspondence, The cell# is the best number to reach me at
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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