I hope I can learn something because I don't understand everything that has happened to my house. We built a 500 sf addtion on the back of our 900 sf house 3 years ago. It is passive solar with 2x6 walls and a vaulted shed roof made from 2x12 engineered roof trusses. Insulation was specified to be closed cell foam by our architect but the builder used blown in white fiberglass. There is no ventilation in the ceiling space. Two months ago water condensed on the canister lights (which were among 14 perforations in the vapor barrier) and rained inside the house. We traced the source of moisture to a defective new dryer we had just bought but the manufacturer refuses to cover any of the damages. Reaching up into the insulation you could squeeze water out of it. It stunk something awful, especially when it was hot. Last week we finally signed a contract to have our original builder demolish the ceiling and insulation. With all the material out, we identified some areas of black mold on the rafters and the OSB decking. These were sprayed with a chemical by a mold mitigation specialist. Now, as we are waiting for the repairs to begin, the smell inside the new room has become overwhelming and is making us sick. My eyes constantly water, my wife's lungs hurt, and we both have headaches. I have also been extremely exhausted like I never have before. Until this happened I was an ultramarathon runner. Now I can not run at all. I don't know what's wrong with me and I don't know if it is related to the house or not. My questions are the following: 1. What could be causing this acrid, chemical smell 5 days after the demolition was completed? 2. The cost of 8 inches of closed cell foam seems prohibitive so the builder and insulation sub are recommending 3 inches of closed cell augmented by fiberglass of some kind along with sealed, airtight canister lights and caulk around all ceiling perforations. Will this be adequate to isolate whatever this smell is? 3. Was the initial construction (compliant with code at the time but not today) adequate to prevent moisture infiltration or should the builder have followed the architect's plans and not tried to talk me in to saving money on the insulation? Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

I would get the humidity very low with dehumidifiers and clean the air with filters. Move out until repairs are done. Look into ozone (not when you are there) to help kill it off and remove odors. I'd see a doctor about the health aspects.

Thanks jonr. We live in Colorado, where the outside air is very dry. Dew point is presently 37 F and outside temp is 90 F for a relative humidity of 18%. It is often quite lower than that. The house is very tight when closed but we have it completely open with fans right now. The smell seems to come and go but when it is bad it is really bad. Filters sound like a good idea and we are looking into installing a HRV with HEPA filter with this construction. We are already being tested and treated by a cadre of doctors for these health issues.

OK, no sense in trying to dehumidify that air unless interior moisture is much higher. Sounds like you are left with ozone treatment or wait and see. Or possibly keep the house at a positive pressure to avoid any infiltration through moldy surfaces.

Yep. I have had lots of so-called experts in there and none of them can tell me what the smell is. It is demolished down to the studs and sheathing and still smells. Could this be offgassing from OSB that has been in place for 3 years? What does the ozone treatment do? Is it just for mold?

Ozone is great at removing odors (I've used it). What's not so clear is exactly what concentration is needed for how long and if it damages anything else. "These were sprayed with a chemical by a mold mitigation specialist" - what exactly was this spray?

All I know was that it cost $200 a gallon and was diluted with water and sprayed all over the joists and the sheathing. I wasn't here when they did it. There is mold visible around where all the canisters were. I suppose the water could have caused the recent odor that has permeated the house since then by soaking the OSB. Before the demolition there was an acrid smell that disappeared the day after. Then the new smell, which is similar but not the same started.

The physical symptons you describe could be caused by very high levels of mold, however your reactions seems to have happened awfully quickly for it to be mold allergies. Were you experiencing these symptons before the tear out occurred? Have you completely evacuated the air from the room since the tear out? Did the symptons start before the chemical was sprayed on the mold or afterward? Do you know which chemical was used? You could be reacting to the chemicals. GET OUT OF THE HOUSE for a couple days and see if your symptons start clearing up. A trip to an MD might also be a good idea.

A trip to an MD might also be a good idea.

Exactly.

Get the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) from the contractors for each product used in the remediation and take them with you.

I have been getting tested and treated for this cluster of symptoms for more than two months. My doctors -- PCP, neurologist, gastro-interologist, opthamologist, psychologist -- all are aware of what's going on. I will take your advice and get the MSDS for all this crap that is being injected into my home and take them to my doctors.

Thank you!

Lots of questions. The excessive moisture was not likely caused by a faulty drier, this was the straw that broke the camels back. The moisture has been accumulating in the ceiling, likely for a long time. Blown fiberglass in a poorly sealed ceiling space with no ventilation was the cause of the problem. The reality of blown fiberglass is that it has an R value of approximately 1.5 per inch. Manufacturers will claim it to be about R3 per inch. However, when it is blown in it becomes "fluffed" or overblown, reducing the R value. If you have 2x12 joists and the cavity was filled then the performance of the blown insulation would be in the range of R 18. This is no where near enough. Over the years warm moist air has been easily passing through the fiberglass insulation, it reaches the cold surface of the roof and then condenses and falls back into the insulation. As the insulation becomes wet the R value is compromised even more, to the point it becomes useless. Your contractor should have gone with the architects recommendations of closed cell spray foam.

I suspect the health issues are mold related. I suspect that the continuing smell is coming from wet or even saturated insulation inside the wall cavities and even the floors. If the ceiling was so wet, it stands to reason that the moisture ran down the vapour barrier and into the walls. You need to check the walls for moisture, by either opening them up, using a good moisture meter or possibly thermal imaging.

When the ceilings and insulation were removed, was the area completely isolated from the rest of the house, was the forced air system shut down and sealed, was the removal done as a mold remediation under containment. I suspect the contractor just ripped down the ceiling without proper containment. If this is the case then you will likely have massive amounts of mold spores released into the atmosphere of the house. Air sampling and analysis should be done to determine what you are dealing with. Be sure to share those results with your Doctors. As somebody else mentioned, you need to be out of the house until the cause is identified and dealt with properly by a professional.

When you get to the bottom of the problem, and you are ready to re insulate, go with the spray foam to the full R value required by code in your area. I do not know what the R value requirement for a cathedral ceiling is in your area. Assume that closed cell spray foam has an R value of R6 per inch, again some manufacturers claim higher R values but the higher numbers are often installed values not aged R values. Often cathedral ceilings require a lower R value than a flat attic area. If you cannot get five to six inches of spray foam behind the pot lights, consider removing them completely.

I am not a fan of the combination of spray foam and fiberglass, the foam works well the fiberglass just fills the space. It is known in the industry as "flash and batt" "spray and pray" is more accurate. This approach can still lead to condensation issues at the juncture of the fiberglass and surface of the foam.

I also suggest that the existing mold on the roof and trusses be removed by dry ice blasting or some other physical method. The mold will be embedded into the wood material and will not be removed by chemical spray alone. You may have to replace the wood sheathing depending on the extent of the mold. Consider using spray foam in the wall cavities as well.

Do not move back into the house until air clearance tests indicate that the mold has been eradicated. You probably should stay out of the house completely until the problem is solved, (unless you are wearing proper personal protective equipment). it is apparent that you have developed an allergic reaction and even a small exposure can start the reaction all over again.

Good Luck.

A lot to think about. Thank you very much for that thoughtful post. I had an independent mold inspector come out today and make some measurements. She seemed a lot more methodical and professional than the other guy. Meeting tomorrow with the builder and the new insulation guy, who wants to start on Thursday. But I want to wait until next week now because I want to get the results of the independent inspector and then determine if further mitigation is necessary before we put any insulation back up there. And I think I have to spring for full closed cell foam. I am just not comfortable with the spray'n'pray approach. We have enough problems as a result of shortcuts like that in the insulation and I don't want to go down that road again.

Awesome post! I am so impressed with your posts. Thanks a lot for sharing this informative post.
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Yes, thank you again. Just to update, the chemical smell has lessened significantly and we got the independent mold inspector's report back on Friday. The walls are ok. The mold in the ceiling needs to be further mitigated under containment before the insulation goes in. We have delayed the insulation and are looking for another independent company to do remove the mold from the sheathing and the TGIs. We are also installing a Heat Recovery Ventilation system with HEPA filters to ensure that the house air is changed in a quantifiable manner. The house is just so tight we can't rely on air seepage to keep the air quality in an acceptable range.

It's accurate to say we are both hypersensitive and probably already were before this. We are both allergic to animal dander, have seasonal allergies, and get physically ill from almost any perfume. I was a bubble boy as a child. I actually had to live in an oxygen tent. So we need our home to be as clean and clear of allergens and contaminants as possible.

Thanks again and again!

Hi, I'm not a builder or anything, just a home owner that read here trying to learn more. I'm sorry to hear of the problems you're having but you have certainly gotten some great info in the posts above. Since you mentioned how you and your wife are really sensitive to this type of stuff (allergies, etc.) - I was wondering ... instead of trying to remove more mold from the OSB and trusses, is it worth considering ripping out all of the roof matieral on the addition and starting with new stuff? I'm sure it would cost more, it opens your house to weather while it is being done and all the hassels associated with that, and in a way it wastes the original materials (maybe someone could reuse them in a different structure like a shed or something). Just a thought, fwiw.
Good luck and hope you get the problem settled soon.

We've definitely considered that. There are so many paths we could take and most of them involve hemorrhaging cash. What we think is that the OSB itself, being three years old now, should be finished offgassing for the most part. And putting it behind spray foam and painted sheetrock should keep it sufficiently isolated from our living space that it won't be a problem. As it is, we are spending most of our reserves on this with little hope of recovering anything.

Greetings,

1st off if the builder did not follow arch instructions you can probably sue the builder.

2nd The only way to insulated a vaunted ceiling is with radiant barrier insulation.  FG is less than 10% eff and foam only about 20% eff.  RB is 97% eff. plus you do not have moisture problems and it lends itself to let you have a ridge vent sys., which is essential in a vaulted roof sys.

Sorry you got stuck with a uneducated arch and a short cut builder.  Seems to be the norm today.

My suggestion is to use SPF. May be before this you might not come across the real professionals. But try it once again to look ahead and check this out that you have consulted the real professional.

SPF Roofing

Really so good and interesting thread that is i can say that i have got some useful info from your post.

Posted By blossom2347 on 26 Aug 2011 02:06 AM
My suggestion is to use SPF. May be before this you might not come across the real professionals. But try it once again to look ahead and check this out that you have consulted the real professional.

SPF Roofing

That's what we are using and what the architect originally specified. I don't think it's fair to say the architect was uneducated. He put his disagreement with the plan to change to fiberglass in writing at the time and is the only entity here who I won't be naming in a law suit or arbitration if it ever comes to that. Spraying today, and drywall Monday. We hope to have our house back by mid September. On the health front, my neurologist has prescribed a 3 month leave of absence from work and has advised me not to do anything requiring heavy concentration for a while as I go through more tests and therapies trying to get these intractible headaches to settle down and return me to more normal sleep patterns. I am completely exhuasted but it is unclear whether this is related to the mold, which admittedly is not a huge amount, or existing neurological issues she has been treating me for over the last ten years. Thanks all again for this helpful experience.