this is my first time ever on forum.i was scanning over the forums for ideas and pointers and felt it would be smart to join in on the conversations because i feel like you all could be very helpful.long story short to start.i have a wife and two kids. in our small town we don't make alot of money. due to the economy i have started getting back to basics.thanks to 2008 i can't get a mortgage or loan for atleast another five years. so to speed up the process of owning my own home i am starting a long term project. im going to be making a log cabin from scratch. i have access to all the straight trees i'll need all about 8 inches in diameter. i plan on dropping them in the very near future. while they season im going to do my foundation,which weather permitting a couple weeks id like to break ground on my family home. i plan to use blue stone and mortar for the foundation. is that good or would block be better?

If you consider, as dozens of NE Ohio customers have done very well with out of 100's of log homes...
-consider Mini splts or GeoThermsal:

Welcome:
my bias:
Sizes of 5-tons are common with 2000 sq ft log homes and on "6-Ton" ground loops, and with controlled cold-start equipment protection in intermittent Air Conditioning. Note huge swings internally if over 40% glass to walls.

~in the late 1990's log homes even sealed a second time 2-3years later and resealed in years following, have more than manual-J losses (a common calculation for dealers)
generally found, whereas usually sizing for 70% to 90% of peaks calculated for cvarious lifestyle and sub-zero choices of not any supplemental heat requested by a customer, MULTI STAGING or MULTI something is expected.
If you use HW
ask for comparisons to -
adding instant HW vs some GTHP that make it Priority on-demand INCLUSIVE,
or just EnergyStar(tm) De Superheating is fine for a good ROI,
- just like anything : more metal for HW, more savings IF INSTALLED by the practices many thousands have used since 1980's.

INSULATE WELL, get nice return air designed in if using air system too.
Priority HW GT can also do Radiant -In-Floor additions or whole.

thanks. now i'm starting to think more about options. i was really going to simplify this cabin as much as possible but im reconsidering fast taking the simple way out. i am limited to any solar gain because of the spot im in and im trying to avoid a radiant floor because of the high risk of mice hanging out under it. the mini split system seems ideal but looking into them i was having a hard time finding if they heat as well as cool.

im trying to avoid a radiant floor because of the high risk of mice hanging out under it

?? Do you mean because it will be warm? Aren't foundations designed to be rodent-proof in the first place?

the mini split system seems ideal but looking into them i was having a hard time finding if they heat as well as cool.

Yes, they do. Combined with your willingness to do wood as a backup, that might be a better heating plan than wood primary/resistance backup.

yea they're meant to be rodent proof, but aren't always. and with where i am i've personally seen two different pex floors be chewed. but in reality it shouldn't be an issue. how much energy roughly would the multi split consume? would it be something i could run strictly off a PV system later on down the road?

You're way ahead of yourself specifying a heating system before the heat load is known, but running a mini-split or geothermal (or any heating system that uses much power) off-grid isn't likely to work out very well. Peak heating loads are in the middle of the night when the sun isn't shining, and during the winter when the input is low is even when the sun DOES shine.

On grid, different story- heat pumps can be very efficient, and if you're on the electric grid but not the natural-gas grid, a mini-split or ground source heat pump will usually be much cheaper than heating with propane or oil, or even wood-pellets. What makes sense is depending on your heat load at the 99th percentile outside design temperature, up-front budget, utility rate, and climate. Got a zip code so's we can look it up?

Log homes are not very efficient thermal envelopes, and 8" logs wouldn't meet code-min for R value in most places. The reasons for the low performance are twofold: Relatively low R-values, and very high (and nearly unconquerable) air leakage rates. Hygroscopic dimensional changes of the wood over seasons/years makes true air-sealing a never ending task. Wood has some phase-change characteristics at relevant temperatures to human comfort for a "dynamic thermal mass" effect, but it's not enough to improve things very much at the winter & summer extremes in most locations.

I've not seen it done, but there may be a way to get the log-cabin look & feel in a relatively tight & well insulated house using EPDM membrane roofing as a flexible air-barrier and buying a truckload of reclaimed rigid roofing foam from some place like the Insulation Depot. (At about 1/3 the cost of virgin-stock foam.)

Bluestone would be fine for a foundation if you're keeping it to 1 story (maybe 2.) Is this a full basement, crawlspace approach, or mortared-up slab?

i am getting ahead of myself a little. mainly because i only know the basics of things and every project i've done before this i followed blueprints. as far as why certain things are the way they are i'm oblivious. so because this is my first time planning everything i want to know all options and all about them before i reach that point in my building.
i plan on digging a little past the frost line but not much deeper, so crawlspace approach.i'm planning on a single floor with a loft in the peak. my rough estimate for my foundation is 20'w x 30'l. i live in beautiful delaware county,ny. my zip code is 13753.
thank you for everything.

Think about a frost protected shallow foundation (FPSF) since you are not looking at a basement. Energy efficient, resource efficient and cost effective. You can put the pex radiant in the concrete slab - no chance of rodents there :o), if you decide to use a hydronic radiant system.

reiterations from applications many know:

If the concrete slab is insulated a
and some heating is with air (for air filtering and cooling anyways, even if a little)
then very little radiant in flooring is at all as 'required'
This is because warmer ceiling air in say basements can be readily directed to a floor VASD vertical air stabilization destratification by simple duct and register and or tiny ducted 4' and 3" dia fans if acceptably hung 6" off of a ceiling 20-30ft away from each other, (if no register layout and other heat source is 'blown about')-

More frequently than not it is easily made too warm and set lower than expected. Having higher return air designs and better sealed cabinets and returns and filter rack doors go a long way towards low bills and high ROI's of the labor and materials.

The very least BTUh's per sqft in N Ohio are found with high return-airs. Cooling is but 3-5weeks , drying is better with higher (relatively) returns and always some air movement in a basement.

((RADON awareness))

Certainly  mini splits air movement directed, -related, can be very impressive.

Others have found Better GeoThermal 3- and 4-staged systems and OEM-  up to 4zoning controls built-in at a unit, are very effective.

Some small zoning does not require any compressors to come"on" if the air or radiant circulation is OVER-Distriibuted .
Some have simple zone damper or valving such that it is independent of the (or  a )  zoning controller, as by some designs' That smaller zone may do well enough pulling from the rest of source in the home, or building. This has been done with single-speed heaters and coolers of many standard less costly zoning installations.
Staging and non-dedicated use,  has virtually eliminated more expensive VAV variable "volume" and Bi-Pass weighted damper designs from small zoned to in commercial applications.  Lifestyle has a voice about all that of the owner of comfort responsibilities.

GeoThermal Consoles , similar to some/like Mini Splits, may be just right. There are even 3-Sided consoles fitting in corners and 54" built-out walls, from 1-5 (rated-size-6) tons which can throw air about to 60 ft away from 4-way, properly adjusted registers.

Some closets have a GT System on a stand right above a Water tank for all 100% HW and HVAC (under a 32x32 footprint) . The return-air filter grills on a nearby wall have some noise issue unless mostly in stage 1 or 2 out of 3-to-4 staging. And spidered flex or supply runs (98% sealed in unconditioned space, R-6 to 10 under recommended 6" + cellulose burial ) of supply ducting (in joists below conditioned spaces can be uninsulated for those floor areas above to receive radiant heating off duct-work).
Radiant floor heating by planned ducting systems been around for years, is but esp. practical when now supply air plenum temps can be set at 98-106 with controlled by variable-blower programming since 2007).

Posted By webo on 19 Apr 2012 06:12 PM
i am getting ahead of myself a little. mainly because i only know the basics of things and every project i've done before this i followed blueprints. as far as why certain things are the way they are i'm oblivious. so because this is my first time planning everything i want to know all options and all about them before i reach that point in my building.
i plan on digging a little past the frost line but not much deeper, so crawlspace approach.i'm planning on a single floor with a loft in the peak. my rough estimate for my foundation is 20'w x 30'l. i live in beautiful delaware county,ny. my zip code is 13753.
thank you for everything.

The 99th percentile design temp for nearby Oneonta is -20C/-4F, so it's not too cold to rule out a mini-split or air-source hydronic solution, and the seasonal coefficient of performance will still be greater than 2, using less than half the power of resistance-electric heating.  Most 2.5-3 ton mini-split with HSPF factors of 9.5 or better will usually deliver at least 24,000BTU/hr @ 0F.  The Mitsubishi H2i series claim to put out more than 70% the nominal rating even at -25C/-13F, so a 3-ton would still give you 25K+ @ -13F.  A tight, reasonably well insulated home with a 600' footprint should be able to get the design-temp heat load down to those levels, and heating with a mini-split will have comparable cost to heating with natural gas (well under heating with oil or gas.) 

A high performance 2-ton minisplit typically runs about ~$5-6K, installed, a 3 ton will run ~7.5K, give or take, so if it takes another couple or three grand in insulation and window upgrades to wack another off another ton of load it'll pay for itself in lower upfront cost and lower operating cost in under a decade.  When you start looking at ground source heat pumps the upfront costs and design risks are higher, but it'll cost about a third less to run than a mini-split in your neighborhood. (Payback times could get really long, and sometimes buying a ground mounted photovoltaic array that would more than make up the difference in power cost between geo and ductless air source is less than the cost delta between the two types of heat pump systems.)

A stacked-stone footing/stemwall and a floating slab approach will be easier to insulate and seal.  Use 2" XPS to insulate the interior vertically on the stemwall up to the level of the sill-log. It's possible to go shallower if you use a frost-protected foundation approach, burying a lateral apron of 2" XPS (sloping slightly away from the foundation) 2' wide extending from the foundation, about a foot below grade at the foundation end. This is sufficient to reliably protect the foundation and slab from frost heaving.  Under the slab you can use 2-3" of reclaimed roofing EPS (that's ~R8-R12 for  25-30 cents per square foot, as opposed to about buck a foot for virgin-stock) atop 6" of 3/4" screenings or clean sand (sand is preferred for termite control, which may be important in a log home), with a poly vapor barrier between the foam and the backfill.  If you're going for a radiant slab, put 1" of XPS sheathing atop the EPS, since XPS retains staples for holding the PEX in place far better than low-density EPS.  Butt the slab foam right up against the stem-wall foam, with the top of the slab at or slightly below the stem-wall foam.

A layer of metal flashing between the bottom log and the foundation is also good for termite control (copper flashing is best, but not essential unless it's a high-risk area, in which case building a log home is a dubious proposition at best.)

If this is an open loft area for sleeping, etc with a mostly cathedral ceiling  design it complicates the air-sealing aspects somewhat, since the logs heave vertically and laterally, but with a flexible membrane approach to the air barrier it's still possible.  Consider dense-packing cellulose into 2x6 or 2x8 rafter bays, and adding the rest of the R above the roof deck in fiber-faced iso or unfaced EPS (again, with reclaimed roofing foam),  held in place with 2x furring through-screwed with 24" o.c. fastener spacing to the structural roof decking, and putting a 1/2" OSB nailer deck above that for the finish roof.  (Vent the nailer deck with 1.5" Cor-a-vent or similar at the soffit end, and a ridge vent at the top end.)  Code min on a "compact roof" in your area is probably R38 (R49 for attic floors.)   A 2x8 rafter bay with cellulose delivers R25 (center cavity), so 4" of EPS (or 3" of iso) above that would get you to code-min, and it would outperform a code-min 2x12 cavity with all fiber fill, since it breaks the thermal bridging of the R7-ish rafters with R20 of foam. (With 2x12 and R38 cathedral ceiling batts you'd still have ~R10 of thermal bridge at the rafter fraction.  The furring/fasteners and nailer deck make this more expensive than a simpler code min, but it's more resiliant to moisture issues, and performs better thermally.

D1:

What of a standing DeHUm RFG HW Heater ( here delivered are 1500 or less) and a small 125 15-25 gal 2nd stage tank and the smaller mini...

Although % - 99th seen around me is -12 (Cleve they argue -3 to 12 deg bal points for supp)

Those HW rfg hybrids standing did not last 15 years ago like the1.1/4 ton  40-gal r-12 and r-22's are still standing from the mid 80's in OH  (probably less than 10--- but I have no IDEA of others I have not seen, the distributor sold 60 or 70 in while -1985)

or just for the thermal energy nut:

?

How much really would be ducting and setting
compared to a couple 4800 gt consoles getting a ~ under 5000 loop system running then 30% cred on also the HW system being all GT tied in?
or air circulation destrat/filtering/etc-  etc and one wall 1.5 ton or whatever GT Console and a 4000 loop hooked up?

If this is an open loft area for sleeping, etc with a mostly cathedral ceiling design it complicates the air-sealing aspects somewhat,

i was thinking that the loft is where i was going to have issues. because my wife wants a little balcony and i didn't plan on going more than ten feet for my walls. so that would involve changing alot of things i'm afraid.

On a bout a 2200 sqft Log, there was a loft off the mezz and a bedroom and they said NOT ANY DUCTING
so w directed 2) 4-way registers, of 6x10, from the first floor, paths clear of planned furniture,
each on 8" flex to kill sound without stretching taught as is accepted by code and manufacturer, but the finest we can find,
and with the ecm=ii blowers today ,  no problem throwing cooling 30-ft , heat works on all stages easily .
IF
you turn the inner set of 2 center vanes "outward" ~ 3-to-5 deg
and turn all the other vanes 2-to3to4deg "inward"; and just like a hose spraying a stream the fluid dynamics of air are similar in delivery