How good are vinyl windows ?
Last Post 15 Feb 2022 11:11 PM by RonCool. 8 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages Not Resolved
AshleygrossUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:3

--
14 Jan 2014 05:40 AM
My uncle visited our house this weekend and we had a huge discussion or I can say argument for vinyl windows. Are they any good ? On researching for the same, I got this http://valuewindowsdoors.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/vinyl-windows-and-energy-efficiency/. Is it so? Are vinyl windows that good ?
BirdmanUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:179

--
14 Jan 2014 07:00 AM
As with anything one has to weigh the pros and cons. On the pro side vinyl windows are generally relatively cheap and they do not have the rotting problems of wood or require paint. On the con side vinyl is environmentally nasty in its manufacture. Vinyl's expansion coefficient is very different from glass and therefore moves differently to the IG unit. Vinyl windows cannot be painted a dark color (at least not on the sunny side). I also question the strength of the unit itself (does it meet the DP55 or better? I am building in the New England coastal area and windows are a big deal here as we get winds in the 60 to 70 MPH gust range several times a winter. I chose fiberglass windows and although the house is not finished yet I'm glad I did. The windows are in and we had a blow of about 50 -55 with driving rain and I could check out the performance of the units without the interior trim in place. The windows were solid, tight, no perceptible air movement no water infiltration no whistling or other noises. The rain was beating on the window like a fire hose and I could stand inside and just watch. Fiberglass can be painted andy color you want and moves in a ratio close to the glass itself. They will cost you more and the are not quite as handsome as wood but at least have a "clean" appearance (although still look a bit like plastic). When shopping for windows always look for the performance rating - it will tell you a lot about air and water penetration.
LbearUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:2740
Avatar

--
14 Jan 2014 06:58 PM
Not all vinyl windows are created equal. First things first, vinyl is basically PVC, and the environmental argument against PVC was discussed in the GBA and it's a moot point. Unless you don't plan to have plumbing in your home and will build an outhouse, all sewer and plumbing lines are PVC. There is also a great difference between PVC and unplasticized PVC or commonly referred to as uPVC. So uPVC contains NO phthalates, NO BPA, is recyclable and fire resitant.

Take for instance an Intus triple pane uPVC window. It is made with unplasticized PVC and reinforced with steel u-channels within the uPVC frames. Intus also addresses the UV issue by using uPVC and they offer a laminated exterior coating that goes over the uPVC to protect it further from UV damage. The laminate rejects the UV and rejects the suns heat. As far as the PVC expansion rates of PVC vs. glass, that issue was addressed and solved by Intus' use of a floating gasket and flexible seals. The glazing floats and the seals allow the glazing to move as it chooses and the PVC to move as it chooses. So the two can move independently of each other because of that design. Unlike almost all American made windows which seal the glazing and PVC with silicone and that seal will last about a few months before it breaks because of the constant movement of the two dissimilar materials.

Intus Windows have a DP70 rating. That means they were tested to a design pressure of 170-205 MPH winds and a Water Penetration Resistance of 720pa or 15.0 psf. The test against water infiltration was with 8" of rain per hour with 65mph winds. The air infiltration rating was < 0.03 cfm/ft2.  Intus now has certified hurricane resistant windows in uPVC triple pane.


AshleygrossUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:3

--
15 Jan 2014 05:31 AM
Posted By Lbear on 14 Jan 2014 06:58 PM
Not all vinyl windows are created equal. First things first, vinyl is basically PVC, and the environmental argument against PVC was discussed in the GBA and it's a moot point. Unless you don't plan to have plumbing in your home and will build an outhouse, all sewer and plumbing lines are PVC. There is also a great difference between PVC and unplasticized PVC or commonly referred to as uPVC. So uPVC contains NO phthalates, NO BPA, is recyclable and fire resitant.

Take for instance an Intus triple pane uPVC window. It is made with unplasticized PVC and reinforced with steel u-channels within the uPVC frames. Intus also addresses the UV issue by using uPVC and they offer a laminated exterior coating that goes over the uPVC to protect it further from UV damage. The laminate rejects the UV and rejects the suns heat. As far as the PVC expansion rates of PVC vs. glass, that issue was addressed and solved by Intus' use of a floating gasket and flexible seals. The glazing floats and the seals allow the glazing to move as it chooses and the PVC to move as it chooses. So the two can move independently of each other because of that design. Unlike almost all American made windows which seal the glazing and PVC with silicone and that seal will last about a few months before it breaks because of the constant movement of the two dissimilar materials.

Intus Windows have a DP70 rating. That means they were tested to a design pressure of 170-205 MPH winds and a Water Penetration Resistance of 720pa or 15.0 psf. The test against water infiltration was with 8" of rain per hour with 65mph winds. The air infiltration rating was < 0.03 cfm/ft2.  Intus now has certified hurricane resistant windows in uPVC triple pane.




Thanks Lbear That's what I told my uncle but he was constantly after goodness of vinyl windows. But these figures are impressive man. Thanks again:) Have you ever tried using vinyl windows ?
AshleygrossUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:3

--
15 Jan 2014 05:33 AM
Posted By Birdman on 14 Jan 2014 07:00 AM
As with anything one has to weigh the pros and cons. On the pro side vinyl windows are generally relatively cheap and they do not have the rotting problems of wood or require paint. On the con side vinyl is environmentally nasty in its manufacture. Vinyl's expansion coefficient is very different from glass and therefore moves differently to the IG unit. Vinyl windows cannot be painted a dark color (at least not on the sunny side). I also question the strength of the unit itself (does it meet the DP55 or better? I am building in the New England coastal area and windows are a big deal here as we get winds in the 60 to 70 MPH gust range several times a winter. I chose fiberglass windows and although the house is not finished yet I'm glad I did. The windows are in and we had a blow of about 50 -55 with driving rain and I could check out the performance of the units without the interior trim in place. The windows were solid, tight, no perceptible air movement no water infiltration no whistling or other noises. The rain was beating on the window like a fire hose and I could stand inside and just watch. Fiberglass can be painted andy color you want and moves in a ratio close to the glass itself. They will cost you more and the are not quite as handsome as wood but at least have a "clean" appearance (although still look a bit like plastic). When shopping for windows always look for the performance rating - it will tell you a lot about air and water penetration.


Birdman What do you suggest ? I am really confused.
BirdmanUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:179

--
15 Jan 2014 08:13 PM
I would suggest that you look at the requirements and constraints of the project you're working on. What is your budget? What does the code require - DP55 (or higher)? Impact resistant? What is the local climate - heating dominant or cooling and how extreme? Are you in a high wind area? New construction or renovation? Are you looking to "be green" as a philosophical position or do you simply want energy efficient windows to save money in the long run? If the latter, what is your expected ownership horizon for this house? I could go on but the point is it is not a "one size fits all" scenario. I am not familiar with the Intus windows mentioned - they sound impressive. I have to say I prefer "simpler" solutions to design issues. Conquering differing expansion coefficients with "floating gaskets and flexible seals" seems a bit like trying to chemically turn milk into eggs when all you really need to do is reach under the chicken and grab a real egg. That said I am not trying to push fiberglass windows or bash vinyl (or recommend any particular manufacturer) - both have their place in the market. I feel windows are a very big part of the budget of a house and are also a key part of the operation and functionality of the house. They are also a huge part of the energy efficiency of the building envelope and for all those reasons you need to learn as much as you can in order to make an informed choice. Once you decide what requirements your windows need to meet then you can review the various types, materials and manufactures in order to get the best fit for your project.
jdebreeUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:497

--
16 Jan 2014 07:43 AM
What I read is that most windows start out with similar specs (for the class, such as double pane or triple pane) but the cheap ones quickly fade in performance. The Intus windows cited are certainly in a different class (and price range) than big box store cheapies. There is an ad for a local window company that shows the installer carrying a window under his arm. Try that with a quality window! My Marvin fiberglass windows were hard to carry with two hands, so there's obviously a big difference in construction.

I've worked in plastics my whole life. PVC moves around a lot, both warping and changing size with temperature. I recently had a plumbing fitting that would not go together, so I took the piece that was too big, heated it a bit in the oven, then let it cool. It shrunk about 1/16", just enough so the parts would go together. Obviously, a window won't undergo that kind of abuse, but I would still expect PVC to move over time. Fiberglass will move, too, but a lot less. Steel or aluminum will not move unless you apply enough force to actually deform it, whereas plastics will creep with time. Also, plastics, glass, and metals expand and contract at far different rates. I don't know how Intus addresses this, but I assume they do.
ericnhUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4

--
28 May 2014 05:23 AM
Vinyl windows as they are made with PVC are very durable compared to wooden ones. It’s maintenance also will be low. They are energy efficient windows. So in a view of saving money, vinyl windows are very much on top. Lot of people are replacing to vinyl windows (windowchoice.ca/window-tips/why-do-most-homeowners-prefer-vinyl-windows ) these days, mostly because of financial savings. But it also is insulated better than wood to noise from outside. Some people prefer it. There are difference in opinion in vinyl windows as well just like anything else in the world. But personally I support vinyl windows.
RonCoolUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:1

--
15 Feb 2022 11:11 PM
We have been installing vinyl windows for years and they're really good in terms of durability and energy-efficiency
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.1
Membership Membership: Latest New User Latest: hudson2000 New Today New Today: 0 New Yesterday New Yesterday: 2 User Count Overall: 34707
People Online People Online: Visitors Visitors: 113 Members Members: 0 Total Total: 113
Copyright 2011 by BuildCentral, Inc.   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement