Hey Everyone, I wanted to get your opinions.. For years I have watched the shitty Wood/Chicken Wire Residential homes go up one after another. I see all these poor saps pay absolutely ridiculous prices for it too. My brother in law is from Washington and that is where I first learned about ICF and was truly impressed. Now with SIPs I see the benefits with not having to pay the high cost of concrete.. So I am torn and would like to hear what everyone thinks because i would like to be as efficient as possible since electricity is so high to cool a home here in AZ.. -Is ICF easier to install electric/water lines? -Are steel SIPs better than wood? -Which would last longer and/or be easiest to repair? I really appreciate your opinions!! -Steve

What part of Arizona?

Residential construction in Arizona is some of the worst in the country. It's pretty scary and sad to see how they build homes out in the valley.

I would go with ICF walls and a SIP roof. ICF works really well in a climate like Arizona, especially in high-country areas that have vast diurnal swings.

Posted By rockkrawler82 on 01 Oct 2014 12:02 AM
...Are steel SIPs better than wood?...

Yes. Steel SIPs are stronger and have better span capabilities than wood/OSB SIPs. Steel SIPs are not subject to damage from termites, rot or mold, and are much lighter and therefore do not require the use of a crane.

@Lbear I am in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area.. I completely agree that the residential construction is just awful.. I am somewhat torn between gutting an older house in the arcadia area, or moving to the higher desert up in north scottsdale and getting a fairly cheap piece of land and doing a contemporary ranch house. Trying to get some good insight on the best bang for my buck if I still build a modern "green" house..

@Jelly Thanks for the insight on the SIPs.. Very true on the crane!! that would save cash.. Good to know!!!

Since SIPs were mentioned how steep a roof can you use SIP on? I am currently planning on conventional stick construction because of cost and the fact I have found very few examples of SIP roofs that have 4/12 or greater pitch. Walls are ICF but not happy with a conventional wood truss and plywood roof.

I spent a lot of time in the area you are from and have family at Flag and New River, construction I have seen for modest homes was some of the worst I have seen...

I don't see how there would be any limit on how steep a SIP roof could be. They are used for walls, right?

correct jdebree, there is no limit on pitch for a SIP roof. My own house has a 10/12 pitch. The nice thing about steel SIPs for a roof is that there are no splines needed, and you can have each panel that reaches from ridge to wall cap in one clear span in most cases. ICF walls and a steel SIP roof are a nice match.

Why are houses in Arizona constructed so poorly?

Posted By robinnc on 04 Oct 2014 10:08 PM
Why are houses in Arizona constructed so poorly?

Numerous reasons:

1 - Phoenix's climate is a cooling dominated climate (Zone 2).
2 - The building codes are very lax.
3 - Mega-builders have infiltrated the code department and pushed for and were granted super lax building methods.
4 - Since the "heating" season is very limited, the developers believe it is not necessary to insulate the home properly (as if cooling a home doesn't require insulation).
5 - Phoenix is a relatively "new" growth area and has experienced tremendous growth in the past few decades. This resulted in fast and cheap homes being built. Very little quality control and enforcement was present during this growth spurt.


Homes in Northern Arizona are constructed better since they are located in Zones 4-5.

Are ICF's w/ SIP roofs legit now? like I thought that was a hurdle a few years back and ppl were unable to do it without high costs and other issues.

Posted By James02 on 06 Oct 2014 04:27 PM
Are ICF's w/ SIP roofs legit now? like I thought that was a hurdle a few years back and ppl were unable to do it without high costs and other issues.

Yes of course it's legit. Not sure what those hurdles could have been, James. The connection between roof and wall is no issue; PT lumber plate is anchored to concrete at top of wall to receive a long SIP screw (beam screw) that penetrates the SIP from the top.

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the great replies.. One thing no one has touched on is the installation of water and electric. I liked how you can literally push the lines into the ICF walls, can you do the same with SIPS??? (both steel or wood) Do you guys have a favorite ICF or SIP company they found advantages of using? Thanks!!!! Links would be awesome as well....

Posted By rockkrawler82 on 09 Oct 2014 10:26 PM
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the great replies.. One thing no one has touched on is the installation of water and electric. I liked how you can literally push the lines into the ICF walls, can you do the same with SIPS??? (both steel or wood) Do you guys have a favorite ICF or SIP company they found advantages of using? Thanks!!!! Links would be awesome as well....

Water and electrical can be run inside of the 2.5" of EPS but anything larger than 2.5" would require furring out the wall or framing out a 2x4 wood frame wall next to the ICF wall.

As far as SIPs go, NOT a good idea to cut into a panel to run electrical, water, etc. Most SIP manufacturers can run some factory pre-installed electrical conduit runs but once at the field, I would NOT cut into a SIP without talking to an engineer or the SIP manufacturer. Ideally you want to leave the SIP intact and just run the utilities on a furred out/framed out wall. Even better idea is to NOT run any plumbing on exterior facing SIP walls. The less penetrations and cutting you make in exterior walls, the less problems, cost and complexity you will have.

I've seen ICF/SIP designs that have NO plumbing runs on exterior facing walls. All plumbing runs are on interior wood framed walls. This is not always possible to do with designs but the more you minimize it, the better.