Insane VOC levels - NEED HELP
Last Post 16 Dec 2019 02:21 PM by mtrentw. 21 Replies.
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loghomebuilderUser is Offline
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31 Oct 2019 06:03 PM
We recently had an indoor air quality test done, and are currently having a second done. Our indoor VOC levels are off the charts - literally. The company doing the test says its the worst house they have EVER tested. They even had us open all our windows for a day just to make sure their equipment wasn't broken. Obviously I need a solution, and to find out why they would be so high. We are fairly tight. I believe we were like 1.5 or 2 ACH when we did a blower door test. WHAT COULD BE THE CAUSE???? Our house is a log home. Not a kit, but whole trees we hand peeled the bark off. We put one coat of Poly on them as a finish. The gaps between logs are fiberglass insulation and mortar. The roof insulation is 2" foil faced Polyiso and 10" of reclaimed EPS foam. We have approx. 325 sf of 3" thick closed cell spray foam in the gables of the walls. We have two layers of OSB on the floor, for the sub floor and a "plywood and plates" radiant system. Finished flooring is solid red oak. Our wall coverings are rough sawn Hemlock with latex paint. Our fireplace hearth and shower walls are done in a PA Limestone. There is very little drywall, one bathroom, closets, and the basement. Interior walls we insulated with both fiberglass and rockwool. Basement is ICF with drywalled walls, epoxy on the floor, and exposed fastener metal roofing as the ceiling panels. We also have high humidity, rarely below 60%. None of out building materials are abnormal, short maybe the metal roofing being used indoors as a ceiling, and I am sure we are above average on the amount of poly. But once the Poly is cured, wouldn't it stop off gassing? 95% of our house is solid untreated wood, rocks, stone, mortar, etc. I have read that solid wood does leach out formaldehyde, but I have to think its a low amount. We have RECORD HIGH levels of VOCs!!!1 VENTING- We do not have a heat recovery ventilator or anything similar. We also have no ductwork (No AC and in floor heating). What type of piping do I need for a good ventilation system and, how much ventilation would I need knowing that my levels are insanely high???
loghomebuilderUser is Offline
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31 Oct 2019 06:14 PM
Here is a link to the chart from the first test. https://www.dropbox.com/s/xbhzheilqzojx1v/Screenshot_20191031-140619.png?dl=0

I have two young children whom cannot tell me if they have symptoms. My wife and I wake up with headaches in the mornings. I have read that is usually Carbon Monoxide but, those levels are very low for us (we are all electric). I have also read that VOCs could be "smells". Our house does have a "log cabin" smell, like a cedar closet would have, but it is more subtle and not Cedar. Is it possible that its just the smell of the wood? Is that poisonous? I really have no idea what it could be, how to find out, and hopefully remove those things. Are there more accurate tests that could be done, testing for each individual VOC?
smartwallUser is Offline
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31 Oct 2019 10:32 PM
Your going to need a HRV. The culprit is probably the osb. If it's urea based, that's bad. Phenol is better. What type of floor joist did you use? I joist or glue lams create the same problem depending on the glue used. Any cabinets may create a problem too. I assume you have cellar windows. Take one out and place you HVR there. Hang it from the floor joist and run a flex duct line thru the floor of a closet with a grill. It shouldn't be too hard. If I remember your house is fairly new . The problem should dissipate over time. Check for radon too.
thoner7User is Offline
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01 Nov 2019 01:24 PM
I will look into the OSB. One layer was Advantech. The other kind I can't recall, just no-name brand from home Depot. Joists are solid wood, Doug fir.

How long does it take to off gas? The subfloor was installed in September of 2017 and the house wasn't closed up untill October of 2018. That's a whole year of wind and air blowing through.

We installed a passive radon system when building. Tested it when we moved in with one of those cheap mail in testers. They said we were really low on radon.

Me and the company doing the testing are totally stumped. Every house has OSB and kitchen cabinets. A lot more than mine does! We have no carpets. Our floor are solid wood not laminate or engineered. I truely don't understand.
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01 Nov 2019 02:58 PM
How was your hardwood floor finished? Some of the more durable finishes use formaldehyde and you have to stay out of the building for several days. Perhaps consider another independent test to truly confirm you have a real problem.
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thoner7User is Offline
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01 Nov 2019 04:33 PM
The hardwood floors have polyurethane on them. Hand applied. They came unfinished from the mill. There was a VOC label on the can but again I believe that's only while it cures no?
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01 Nov 2019 08:06 PM
I was thinking of the more durable finishes like Swedish that use formaldehyde. I wouldn't expect polyurethane to create this issue. OSB is usually the culprit. Were your logs treated in some way that could cause this? Could this be a local environmental issue like Love Canal? If the results are real, you should consider improving the ventilation with a HRV using dedicated fresh/stale duct work or multiple units that egress directly through the walls they are located. Tightly sealed homes need ventilation. Log homes typically are not tightly sealed or don't stay that way for long. And I would still consider getting a second independent test.
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thoner7User is Offline
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02 Nov 2019 07:16 PM
No the logs weren't treated like that. Just a borate salt. Not sure what you mean by love canal lol. But I doubt it.

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03 Nov 2019 03:27 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal
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04 Nov 2019 07:13 PM
https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/exteriors/vocs-in-plywood-vs-osb_o

"VOC emissions are pretty much a nonissue for exterior-grade plywood and OSB. Exterior-rated structural panels use moisture-resistant phenolic-formaldehyde resins in the adhesives (this is also true for wood I-joists, LVL, glulams, cross-laminated timber, and many other types of engineered lumber). These adhesives do not off-gas substantially, nor do they add much of anything to the levels of indoor air contaminants."
loghomebuilderUser is Offline
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05 Nov 2019 07:55 PM
Here is a link to my week long air test. As you can see the VOCs are MAXED OUT for the entire week, except for one morning where they drop, and rocket back up again. We opened every window in the house and aired it out, just to make sure they monitor wasn't broken. This CANNOT be a normal reading, can it?!?!?!?!?!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lo8snmliiyt7vib/Air%20Quality%20Test%20week%20long.pdf?dl=0

I am worried that I have such a high level of VOCs that, no amount of venting will be adequate, while also keeping the house warm. It took opening every window in the house to bring them down!!!!

I am going to look into whatever type of ventilator I need. which is the best? I am being told a CERV2 is top of the line. is it overkill? I am also told that a "photo catalytic oxidizer" or something will remove VOCs without necessarily venting any air. I would greatly appreciate someone helping to point me in the right direction here.
loghomebuilderUser is Offline
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05 Nov 2019 07:55 PM
Here is a link to my week long air test. As you can see the VOCs are MAXED OUT for the entire week, except for one morning where they drop, and rocket back up again. We opened every window in the house and aired it out, just to make sure they monitor wasn't broken. This CANNOT be a normal reading, can it?!?!?!?!?!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lo8snmliiyt7vib/Air%20Quality%20Test%20week%20long.pdf?dl=0

I am worried that I have such a high level of VOCs that, no amount of venting will be adequate, while also keeping the house warm. It took opening every window in the house to bring them down!!!!

I am going to look into whatever type of ventilator I need. which is the best? I am being told a CERV2 is top of the line. is it overkill? I am also told that a "photo catalytic oxidizer" or something will remove VOCs without necessarily venting any air. I would greatly appreciate someone helping to point me in the right direction here.
sailawayrbUser is Offline
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06 Nov 2019 04:50 PM
Did you get a second test from different independent company? If real, you are certainly far from normal and you have an egregious situation... You might want to engage your local building inspectors for assistance and guidance. In the past, you might have also engaged the EPA, but these days that likely wouldn’t be helpful as clean air and water has been traded for corporate profit. I would personally not expose anyone to that unhealthy indoor environment for any length of time. I hope you find the cause soon and can remedy it quickly.
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
arkie6User is Offline
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06 Nov 2019 07:17 PM
What about interior cabinets and furniture? What are they made from? Any particle board? Interior grade particle board can have high VOC content.
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06 Nov 2019 10:09 PM
That’s a good thought, particle board can have high VOC. Maybe you could use vapor barrier to isolate some of the rooms and test each room individually to identify if there is a dominant source of the VOC?
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loghomebuilderUser is Offline
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09 Nov 2019 12:02 AM
That test was done by the same group. I have tried to buy a foobot twice now and they are apparently out of stock....everywhere. I'll look into a second testing group, hopefully who can test for specific VOCs. I read Formaldehyde is easy to test for. Are there any others I should look for??
There's no particle board in the house. Our kitchen cabinets are plywood boxes and solid wood drawers. We have a 30x12 foot piece of carpet rolled out in the basement. We have two new couches. And less than 100 sheets of OSB. Almost all of our other furniture is second hand or hand made by me with solid wood. Bottom line is this house has significantly less VOC containing materials than the average new construction house. ...... The only think I can think of is either A)rocks we made out hearth out of or B)the wood itself. Since it's a log home, the house does have somewhat of a "wood" smell. Kinda like an oak barrel or cedar closet does, except ours is larch.

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23 Nov 2019 06:25 PM
The group I've been working with just told me they are too busy to deal with my issue. Great. I've called 3 companies to install a vent system, and gotten no where with any of them.

Is there anyone on this site that could help me size and install a quality HRV? Preferably one with dehumidification capabilities??? I would be willing to pay you some fee as a consultant if you'd like. I'm more than capable of doing the manual labor, but would need help with equipment sizing, and programming. I could figure out ductwork from a manual I would presume.

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07 Dec 2019 08:11 PM
Unfortunately, there are a multitude of methods and recommendations for sizing HRVs/ERVs which can get confusing. And you don’t want to over ventilate as this incurs a serious energy penalty.

HRVs/ERVs are often sized to ventilate the whole house at a minimum of .35 air changes per hour. To calculate minimum CFM requirements, simply take the square footage of the house (including basement) and multiply by the height of the ceiling to get cubic volume. Then, divide by 60 and multiply by .35.

ASHRAE Standard 62.2 is another common method for sizing HRVs/ERVs:

https://homes.lbl.gov/ventilate-right/step-3-whole-building-ventilation-rate

You can purchase HRVs/ERVs that don’t require any duct work. The Lunos HRV is one example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpus9d09Ni8

Most manufactures of HRVs/ERVs requiring ductwork provide information on how to successfully accomplish this. Basically, you have to use some minimum diameter duct size based on the length and required CFM that section of duct is designed to provide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y_VBiTiuAY
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
mtrentwUser is Offline
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15 Dec 2019 02:52 AM
I think too often we get in a trap of trying to blame glues, OSB, manufactured products for VOC's. The trees used for the log home may likely be the source of VOC's. Especially since you tell me you hand peeled them. Trees naturally make VOC's to attract pollinators and repel harmful insects. Cedar, cypress, eucalyptus........ These are all smells we recognize because of the aroma given off in their VOC's. Think Tea Tree Oil and

If you're smelling wood/cedar/etc, you are likely smelling terpenes, pineen, linalool, pine tar or other similar natural VOC's.

Kiln dried lumber doesn't have near as many VOC's due to offgassing during heating process.

I suggest some sort of balanced ventilator and then open it up and air it out when it's hot. By their nature the VOC's will volatilize more at higher temperature and eventually most VOC in the wood will be gone with proper air exchange.
mtrentwUser is Offline
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15 Dec 2019 02:55 AM
CHeck this article on emissions from western hemlock during drying and why is causes some grief for lumber mill emission monitoring.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283614582_Emissions_from_western_hemlock_lumber_during_drying
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