I came up with a new idea that I call Digital MPPT thermal controller and this together with the existing SBMS are the basis for a so called Net Zero energy House solution.
Since this is GreenBuilding talks this is probably the best forum to discus this solution.
My claim is that this the the lowest cost house energy solution includes heating and electricity but can also be used just for heating just DMPPT no SBMS needed in that case.

I made a pdf presentation explaining how it works and used my small offgrid house as an example to show that this is the most cost effective house energy solution. You input is appreciated.
Here is the link to that presentation http://electrodacus.com/DMPPT450/dm...01.pdf

Hello, haven't you been talking about this design on other sites for at least six mo's -a year now, on kickstarter as well? Reason I ask if you are the same guy the info above should be old. Pretty sure thats you, you have a highly insulated small home off-grid in CAN.

I think you need to work on simplifying your presentation so the average person can understand what you are trying to accomplish. There are on-line tools for this.

I'm no EE and I think it's going to take one to design this system for each application. I don't see the average DIY homeowner/ electrical trade being able to size wires and electrical loads/analysis, or, you will need to do that at competitive cost. If you are the same guy you are an EE?

Then theres liability, fire UL & other testing, codes, ICC letters you'd need to provide.

I'll take a stab at interpreting the above. Again, I'm no EE so I suggest defining all acronyms I struggled with.

1. You designed a DMPPT & SBMS what does that mean?

2. These two manage battery charging and electric vs hydronic radiant heat? U build a case showing concrete can hold well compared to water based on it's density (ok but there are other factors, ie: moisture content heat losses). Not sure how they boost the inefficiencies you show....vs an electric 100% eff boiler?

Note: you used some "usable temperature range" in calculations meaning basically the temps are such there is no absorption/desoption.

3. You propose a parallel vs series design in both PV and heat loops since it increase electrical resistance to heat the floor better, less need for both battery and concrete storage inputs?

4. Why recommend silicone wire sheathing other than availability & lower cost? Explain the purpose and how thickness is determined? Again, wire size needs an approved table or EE.

5. Have you found a calculator that converts PV KWH to annualized $/kWH to compare to utility. I'm using NREL "BEOPT" same E_PLUS engine as PV Watts I think and I don't see it in D-View yet. I have PV design getting ready to build ~ 5 kWH site energy. Local Utility @ $.11 kWH w/ $15/mo fixed. Just using simple mortgage calcs I think PV is at  ~$ .08.

Posted By PARAHOMES on 11 Jan 2017 09:55 AM
Hello, haven't you been talking about this design on other sites for at least six mo's -a year now, on kickstarter as well? Reason I ask if you are the same guy the info above should be old. Pretty sure thats you, you have a highly insulated small home off-grid in CAN.

  Thanks for the suggestions. Yes is of course me the same guy that designed and build the Solar BMS but now the Digital MPPT thermal controller is something new and just started the Kickstarter for that about 24h ago. 

I think you need to work on simplifying your presentation so the average person can understand what you are trying to accomplish. There are on-line tools for this.

I'm no EE and I think it's going to take one to design this system for each application. I don't see the average DIY homeowner/ electrical trade being able to size wires and electrical loads/analysis, or, you will need to do that at competitive cost. If you are the same guy you are an EE?

Then theres liability, fire UL & other testing, codes, ICC letters you'd need to provide.

I'll take a stab at interpreting the above. Again, I'm no EE so I suggest defining all acronyms I struggled with.

I think my presentation is as simplified as possible and all information is there for someone to fully understand how this works. I also mentioned in the presentation that I will provide tools to calculate the heating cable needed based on specific installation. Any EE or even a hobby DIY that understand simple stuff about electricity can calculate all that it needs just using simple Ohm's law.
Of course a lot of people will not understand the presentation but that means this product is not for them and they will need someone that understand how all this works.
All I offer is the controller people will need to know what size PV array they need and heating cables based on specific needs.     

1. You designed a DMPPT & SBMS what does that mean?

2. These two manage battery charging and electric vs hydronic radiant heat? U build a case showing concrete can hold well compared to water based on it's density (ok but there are other factors, ie: moisture content heat losses). Not sure how they boost the inefficiencies you show....vs an electric 100% eff boiler?

Note: you used some "usable temperature range" in calculations meaning basically the temps are such there is no absorption/desoption.

3. You propose a parallel vs series design in both PV and heat loops since it increase electrical resistance to heat the floor better, less need for both battery and concrete storage inputs?

4. Why recommend silicone wire sheathing other than availability & lower cost? Explain the purpose and how thickness is determined? Again, wire size needs an approved table or EE.

5. Have you found a calculator that converts PV KWH to annualized $/kWH to compare to utility. I'm using NREL "BEOPT" same E_PLUS engine as PV Watts I think and I don't see it in D-View yet. I have PV design getting ready to build ~ 5 kWH site energy. Local Utility @ $.11 kWH w/ $15/mo fixed. Just using simple mortgage calcs I think PV is at  ~$ .08.

1. They are explained in the presentation Digital Maximum Power Point Taking thermal controller and model is called DMPPT450 because it supports up to 450A STC (Standard Test Conditions) PV array current. And Solar Battery Management System but most people that know about solar will understand BMS and MPPT and will use those since are easier to write.

2. Yes SBMS manages Lithium battery charging and monitoring and DMPPT will manage heating or cooling (cooling more complex but possible) ans storing that in thermal mass (no need for pumps or water) you can just use as I will do for my house PV array + DMPPT + heating cable embedded on the concrete floor under ceramic tiles. The concrete floor will act as a thermal storage battery able to store in my case about 97kWh of energy.
When DMPPT is used together with SBMS the entire house energy can be provided meaning heating, hot water and electricity for all appliances.
Using solar PV panels directly connected to a resistive heat element is possible but efficiency will be very low in average around 50 to 60% where adding the DMPPT will increase that to 93 to 98%. The way that is done is by varying the Load (resistive heat element power based on amount of solar energy available by using 6 different heat element and switching one or more of them base on available solar energy to keep the PV array working at max power point) The load can be varied in 32 steps 2^5 or even 64 steps 2^6 depending on setup. Up to 98% efficiency can be obtained with 32 steps and 99% with 64 steps.

3. No all panels are parallel just split in 6 different size sub-arrays. The Loops are also split in 6 groups each with different power so that total resistance can be varied with 32 or 64 levels by combination of this 6 outputs as on or off.

4. Silicone cables are rated at 200C (they will work at way lower temperature in this application but is good to have margins and they need to last 30 to 100 years or the life of the house) and they are also available and inexpensive.
Any EE and even DIY hobby person will know how to calculate the thickness and length based on Ohm's law. In US tables are usually used and that is because of fairly unintuitive units used but in rest of the world the EE will usually just calculate the cable size with simple formula based on cable section.  As mentioned before I will offer an online tool that will make things easier. DMPPT is just a prototype at this moment and will only be available later this year when more detailed spec and manual will be available similar to the one existing for SBMS.

5. I use PVWatts as you seen in DMPPT presentation and gave my location as example. You seem to have a fairly decent amount of sun there if average is 5kWh/m2/day and cost amortization will depend on your system cost.
You will probably have a grid connected system that is relatively simple with PV panels and grid tie inverters.
8 cent/kWh as cost amortization seems as a realistic number for grid connected PV installation.
Just the PV panels alone will have a 2.4cent/kWh amortization cost based on $0.8/Watt PV panels acquisition price + 25 years amortization period and amount of sun at my location Regina, Saskatchewan Canada almost the same as your location 5.04kWh/m2/day
To that you need to add the grid tie cost amortization in same way if is good quality and can last for 25 years if not then calculate for 10 years or whatever the warranty is and then cables, roof or ground mount and installation cost.
Maybe you have all this as a single number is someone else will install them for you. 

Hope I answered some of your questions.

Thanks, it's all making more sense now. We'll have to agree to disagree...I don't think there is anything "simple" about all this. You know, we Engineers think our knowledge is simple, it is to us after decades of practice but to the average end user client whom has the $$$ they have to understand. I recently put some videos on my website trying to simply building science and high performance homes and ppl still look at me with glazed eyes, trades too at home shows, etc. Your average PV installer will maybe get parts of this, electrical trades know code this is not in. Not sure how to get inspection approvals on this product it will take some explaining. Other issue I had is time consuming conversion of units so it made sense most won't do. When it comes to electrical most ppl want nothing to do with it, and qualified ppl like EEs won't be easy to find and will add to design cost. My other point is liability...most trades are not E&O insured to circuit design only follow code. Another might be home owners insurance , fire, usually only cover code adopted....

Odds are stacked against mass solar sales even though yes ppl like you and I see the lower production cost vs utility since we have BIG issues in the non-sunshine US states and some of them even, with appraisers getting value right which is complex, and banks issuing Green Money or Energy Efficient Mortgages that includes solar on net zero mass produced specs so builders can profit. Amortizing, vs lease options, is making more sense and DOE spells out the opportunities for banks most ignore. PValue is under utilized so is AGREEA.

Of course we know theres more to it than throwing high $10-25,000 up and some of the average poorly design homes in your PDF. MEP loads have to optimized you have done in part.

I downloaded your simulator. Took a while to figure out what I was looking at, see contextual menus I'm don't have the time to study. I'm seeing current flow but the screen is cut-off. A video of this will help. Yes, manuals and a simple design sim model would help.

I have a low load 2180 SF loft I'm doing the drawings (permit, trades, this would need to be spec out) now for building soon. Not sure I'll get solar or convince the client, maybe, I do have a green money perm financing source, not local construction loan and PV makes perfect sense from yr 1. No appraiser, banks even ones with 35 US branches don't get it basic solar concepts & are not interested. Forget new complex circuits so my guess as you said this is not for alot of designs.

I'm estimating a heating/cooling load @ 25 BTU going w/minisplit for now anyway thinking about running lines in chases through concrete slab on grade. Client has expressed interest in radiant floors. I'm considering an electric resistance design NOBODY has an experience with here but, I would not be using tiles. My insulated polished concrete floor we plan on putting a designed top coat. As far as I can tell  natural stone tile would product a little more thermal conductance & about the same dry heat capacity than concrete if it could be worked into the budget, however, we can get the same effect using iron oxides or grouted cuts for less cost. I think they are wanting some carpet we need to discuss the better breathable less toxic more expensive grades. 

What are you thinking for cooling? Peltier? Zeoliite? PCMs? :)       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

Have you found a low cost cooling only zoned minispit?

How do we track the release date of you DMPPT? Do you have a website I missed?

Posted By PARAHOMES on 12 Jan 2017 10:38 AM
Thanks, it's all making more sense now. We'll have to agree to disagree...I don't think there is anything "simple" about all this. You know, we Engineers think our knowledge is simple, it is to us after decades of practice but to the average end user client whom has the $$$ they have to understand. I recently put some videos on my website trying to simply building science and high performance homes and ppl still look at me with glazed eyes, trades too at home shows, etc. Your average PV installer will maybe get parts of this, electrical trades know code this is not in. Not sure how to get inspection approvals on this product it will take some explaining. Other issue I had is time consuming conversion of units so it made sense most won't do. When it comes to electrical most ppl want nothing to do with it, and qualified ppl like EEs won't be easy to find and will add to design cost. My other point is liability...most trades are not E&O insured to circuit design only follow code. Another might be home owners insurance , fire, usually only cover code adopted....

Odds are stacked against mass solar sales even though yes ppl like you and I see the lower production cost vs utility since we have BIG issues in the non-sunshine US states and some of them even, with appraisers getting value right which is complex, and banks issuing Green Money or Energy Efficient Mortgages that includes solar on net zero mass produced specs so builders can profit. Amortizing, vs lease options, is making more sense and DOE spells out the opportunities for banks most ignore. PValue is under utilized so is AGREEA.

What I offer both the SBMS and DMPPT is not for any user. Is more for those familiar with electricity since they will need to dimension and install everything. I can always offer assistance and respond to any question but that is as much as I will do.
The risk of fire is non existent for a properly installed DMPPT450. All cables will be fused according to code and on top of that the current is self limited because PV panels are constant current power sources (if you short the two leads of a PV panels nothing will realy happen there will only be as much current trough that wires as the solar panel is designed to provide in normal operation and just directly proportional with the amount of solar getting to that panel).
Then the circuit will only be powered during the day no current during the night. The DMPPT450 is also designed for ultra low voltage just 30V DC (max 40V DC open circuit).
US has extremely good solar not sure what you consider non-sunshine states. Any of those states has way better solar than say Germany or most other European countries that have a lot of solar installed despite much less solar energy available.

Of course we know theres more to it than throwing high $10-25,000 up and some of the average poorly design homes in your PDF. MEP loads have to optimized you have done in part.

There is just one house in my PDF and that is designed and build by me to fairly high standards. Or maybe you are referring to those graphs based on the International Energy Agency data.
Those represent the average house energy usage in countries with quite variate climate. Also the average house there is based on detached houses, apartments and all other residential spaces in the respective country.  

I downloaded your simulator. Took a while to figure out what I was looking at, see contextual menus I'm don't have the time to study. I'm seeing current flow but the screen is cut-off. A video of this will help. Yes, manuals and a simple design sim model would help.

I guess is maybe cut off because I was using a full 1080 screen when I made the drawing in that simulator tool and you probably had a smaller screen. I will probably make a video soon explaining the pdf in details including the simulation.

I have a low load 2180 SF loft I'm doing the drawings (permit, trades, this would need to be spec out) now for building soon. Not sure I'll get solar or convince the client, maybe, I do have a green money perm financing source, not local construction loan and PV makes perfect sense from yr 1. No appraiser, banks even ones with 35 US branches don't get it basic solar concepts & are not interested. Forget new complex circuits so my guess as you said this is not for alot of designs.

I'm estimating a heating/cooling load @ 25 BTU going w/minisplit for now anyway thinking about running lines in chases through concrete slab on grade. Client has expressed interest in radiant floors. I'm considering an electric resistance design NOBODY has an experience with here but, I would not be using tiles. My insulated polished concrete floor we plan on putting a designed top coat. As far as I can tell  natural stone tile would product a little more thermal conductance & about the same dry heat capacity than concrete if it could be worked into the budget, however, we can get the same effect using iron oxides or grouted cuts for less cost. I think they are wanting some carpet we need to discuss the better breathable less toxic more expensive grades. 

I'm quite bad with imperial units so not sure I get this correctly but I think you say heating/cooling load is 25BTU / sqft so that 2180sqft building the 25BTU = 7.326W = 0.0073kW x 2180 sqft = 15.97kW and this seems a bit high for me but is also a fairly large building 202 square meters and maybe not particularly well thermally insulate.
For in floor heating I prefer just ceramic tiles (polished concrete floor will be as good). I do not realy like carpets but is a personal preference.

What are you thinking for cooling? Peltier? Zeoliite? PCMs? :)       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

Have you found a low cost cooling only zoned minispit?

How do we track the release date of you DMPPT? Do you have a website I missed?

I will probably build a constant temperature room for food storage in the future and then most likely I will use Peltier elements since I like reliable solid state stuff :)
For energy storage I prefer concrete or water since they are especially water very low cost. As PCM's maybe paraffin for heat storage but is more expensive it makes only sense if space is an issue since it has slightly higher energy density than water.
I had to google Zeolite and I have not read enough to have an informed opinion about them.
I do not need space cooling at my location just heating so I have no idea on what is the best value minisplit.
You can see the release date on the Kickstarter page that I just started https://www.kickstarter.com/project...o-energy-h but it will be September this year when it will be shipped to first backers.

Have you seen these MIT CNTs? I could not find any on the market yet but it may be soon, perhaps this year? Will more "photocurrent" cause a DMPPT & SDBMS redesign?

I'm not sure they are after more efficiency than silicon 15 -20% soon but, it sounds like are in time they will by capturing 100% solar light then convert. Now we can install on domed roofs...I wonder how flexible they are will they dome to the suns incidences reducing or eliminating the need for tracking devices.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140903105841.htm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140318093357.htm#.WF3wd9GRDVM.linkedin

Looks things are progressing fast for transistors,

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160902152049.htm

Anyway, if this tech comes to market soon as a greater COP compared to your designs that is more complex externally they will be stacked up against just throwing some CNT panels up no circuit design.

What are you estimating for cost?

They are finding the same tech can strengthen aircraft carbon composites impact resistance. I've designed them and the issues has been fasteners tearing up holes and debri impact (point load) resistance even though the strength-to-weight is higher that other metals or metal bonds like SIPs. That and cost has probably restricted them in AEC to date.

Carbon/graphite/resign, as far as I know, has always had low thermal and electrical conductivity. We had to embed metal fibers in the resigns or metal mesh bonds to inner skins for a lightening strike/EMI paths. So, I don't know how, but these guys have redesigned the molecular structure matrices.

With better electrical, thermal properties and high existing structures we may not be far from a SIPs that has PV capability with no panels, the walls and roof are the absorbents. Going to probably take high core insulation/isolation along with working out LS/EMI. 

Some of that well underway for rooftop w/production starting this year 2nd QTR soon: https://www.minds.com/blog/view/610203648479211523

BTW: Your sim was cutting off on my 30" 4K.

BTW: thanks for trying to figure out my typo I meant my heating/cooling required capacities are 25 kBtu/hr. I wished we all spoke the same units. Site electric use ~13, 892 KWh/yr , 10 kW PV takes care. Total grid tied utility bill no PV $150 mo vs I'm still working on, average home @ double that, yes as show in your USA International Energy Agency data pie charts I was referring to.

For your videos some good free easy to use software is Showmore: Has PIP just go to setting first then hit record. Takes a little practice. I save a .mov file then import it to Davinci Resolve file "Import Media" or drag drop into editor. If you don't see audio & video separate time lines using drag drop use file-import since the link got dropped. You can do some real nice editing even put your smiling face in PIP to impress clients Don't forget to wear a tie!

https://showmore.com/

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

Heres a good tutorial:https://mostlytech.net/tag/davinci-resolve/

Looks like he has some 17 updates I need to check out.

Also, nice jobs on both designs I'm sure it was not easy. We need more smart peeps like you in production AEC and on these green forums, even though you use the wrong units Just Kidding! :)

Other efficiencies are coming from DC lights I am using as many as I can, also DC & HP appliances are trickling in and of course optimizing power consumption in the design. Most don't look at it. Thanks for the refreshers I try to keep up and there is ALOT to stay on top of for high performance cost optimized design-build mass productions.  More of a challenge than on-off rural DIYs, being IMO your biggest current target client unless you establish a code path, ICC letter, ASTM test, etc, or something to show AHJs/BSOs, especially if you start to manage higher photocurrents.  Don't know how many products you have in these environments but there are plenty of good designs (eg: low fire/smoke indexes I even have tried) out there that cannot get past time consuming costly  battles w/politics & jurisdictions rendering them worthless. I think easily adopted competitive EE is going to be a big driving success factor.

I have no idea how, all like US NREL, German WUFI, of these global sim software's I use I can switch to about any language by tab selection and any unit by drop down DBX.

Posted By PARAHOMES on 13 Jan 2017 11:16 AM

It seems I do not received an email when you posted the comment. I did not realized I need to manually enable email notification for this forum.
Not all is about efficiency since as you maybe seen in my presentation thermal solar that is more efficient than PV solar by significant margins is still much more expensive.
My target was cost amortization and not efficiency and PV energy seems to be the least expensive and also simple to transport and use.
Carbon nanotubes and graphene sheets are not mass produced and while they have some impressive characteristics there will be a long way until they can realy be integrated in products.
The thing is that PV cells are so inexpensive that the highest cost of the panel is the glass an aluminium frame with PV cells almost insignificant.
Silicone PV cells are also extremely durable with many PV manufacturers offering now 35 years warranty on output vs 25 years up to now. That means that a PV panels will still output 80% of the original power in 35 years.
It will be realy hard for anything to compete with PV in the near future in therms of cost amortization and reliability.

  

If you want to get more interest then I suggest you show a proper costed house design .
we all know that technology to go the moon is available --but who can afford it .

Posted By scottishjohn on 09 Oct 2018 03:20 PM
If you want to get more interest then I suggest you show a proper costed house design .
we all know that technology to go the moon is available --but who can afford it .

The pdf presentation on the original post shows how solar PV heating compares in therms of cost with thermal solar and natural gas. PV solar heating is the most cost effective energy source possible at this point in time. The only issue may be that you do not have the space for the PV panels if the house is large and inefficient. And if you are talking about my small house that was cost effective about same price for materials as frame buildings is just that will need to be DIY as no builder will accept to build something other than what they used to build or ask so much that it will be unreasonable. In any case my presentation is not about the house but about the PV heating system that can be adopted to any existing and especially new houses if designed properly with good thermal insulation and adequately large thermal storage.