ReadyToRetire
Basic Member
Posts:212
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| 28 Jan 2008 05:20 PM |
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I was looking at a vendors window listings and saw casement but not awning windows.
Is there a difference between casement and awning windows, or is it just the orientation in which you install them?
Thank you for any comments,
Larry
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 28 Jan 2008 05:48 PM |
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Larry,
When I asked several window companies that same question, I was told that it was based on orientation. To be safe, I would ask the company that has the windows that you might buy.
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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ReadyToRetire
Basic Member
Posts:212
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| 29 Jan 2008 04:53 PM |
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Thank you Alton, that supports my assumption.
Very respectfully,
Larry
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mikeinnyc
New Member
Posts:47
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| 30 Jan 2008 12:22 PM |
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Casements open just like doors... they open sideways. Awnings open from the bottom....like animal flaps on doors. Awnings are usually Attic Windows. Basement windows are mostly sliders or dh because you can trip over them outside if they open out wards.
Mike
Also Double Hung is ideal if CHILD SAFETY is an issue. You can lock the bottom sash w/ safety bars on lower half , while the top sash is opened.(if you have kids required) |
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| MIKE IN NYC |
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 30 Jan 2008 03:11 PM |
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Casements have two advantages over the other styles. They are more air tight than double hung or sliders. Don't know how they compare to awnings as I didn't look at using awinings. Casements, in my checking out of window displays, are the easiest to operate. That is an issue if you are concerned about how hard or easy it will be for someone with weak hands and wrists, caused by arthritis or old age, to open a window.
I personally prefer double hung but I'm installing casements in the house I'm building for just these two reasons.
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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mikeinnyc
New Member
Posts:47
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| 30 Jan 2008 06:06 PM |
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I love casements they really force airflow inside of my house. They are so easy to open it's like 3/4 turns to wide open. Make sure you have both top and bottom arms holding the window. I have one large casement that has one arm on the bottom and the wind rattles this window at MPH plus. I think the others can handle double that speed. DH is not an issue at all. All Anderson 400 series Highly Recommended w/ Argon Gas but only ones with 2 arms top and bottom. Avoid the one ARM if you can.
I can say that the only downside to casements is that Birds will crack their heads into wide open casements. I wish I were kidding. If you have a backyard with lots of plants and flowers, birds will definitely come by to visit. I had to stop feeding birds due to one per month going THUMP! Andersen had no comment on the Bird Stats. My cat just waits by the window now like he knows whats coming...thump!
Mike |
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| MIKE IN NYC |
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ReadyToRetire
Basic Member
Posts:212
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| 30 Jan 2008 06:28 PM |
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Thanks all.
I like the breeze catching aspect of the casement windows, but I was considering them to maximize the view. My thought was to use a fixed, picture window with a set of awning windows across the top in case I want to ventilate. I react to dust and pollen, so we don't ventilate as much as we should (our ventilation is by leakage).
My question came up because the vendor paper didn't show awning windows, only casement. With the glass more horizontal, I'd expect fewer bird hits and markedly less wind load.
Very respectfully,
Larry
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blackdogarch
New Member
Posts:31
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| 03 Feb 2008 01:06 PM |
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Keep in mind that the hardware placement will be different, and may affect the locking capability if using a casement on it's side. While many vendors do use their casement basic design for awnings as well, there are particular functional differences such as the hardware location and type (awnings often use scissor type extenders) or orientation of any bevels deigned for water run-off that may be worth considering. Check with the manufacturer. I'll bet they do awnings, too. |
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mewldgyd
New Member
Posts:4
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| 11 Feb 2008 08:10 PM |
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casement and awning windows are similar but are not interchangeable, they operate the same ,but have different hardware, also the weeping system would be different |
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Oberon
New Member
Posts:31
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| 16 Feb 2008 09:58 AM |
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From a basic manufacturing viewpoint an awning window is simply a casement window laid over on its side - or one could also say that a casement window is not much more than an awning window stood-up on it's end.
While there are different hardware requirements for both styles, many window companies use the same frame and sash configurations and designs for both styles - again, simply changing the hardware from one style for the other. And even the lock systems are often interchangeable - although the hinge systems are different.
As an aside, sliders and double hungs have much the same relationship - a double hung is really just a slider stood-up on its end and a slider is a double hung laid on its side - again, usually - but not always, with some very simple hardware changes involved. And again, in many instances the basic frame/sash configurations are interchangeable.
Obviously as installed, there are great differences between the styles - as was very well pointed out in the previous posts.
Another possible style that you might want to check out is the dual-action or tilt turn window. This is a very common style in much of Europe but it is relatively unknown in the US (probably a little more well known in Canada, though).
The tilt turn can be a very energy efficient window style from sealing out unwanted cold air (a well designed/built tilt turn is arguably the tighest operating window style available), to allowing a maximum (for the size of the unit) of fresh air when desired.
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Jelly
Veteran Member
Posts:1017
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| 17 Feb 2008 12:39 PM |
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Posted By Oberon on 02/16/2008 9:58 AM Another possible style that you might want to check out is the dual-action or tilt turn window. This is a very common style in much of Europe but it is relatively unknown in the US (probably a little more well known in Canada, though).
The tilt turn can be a very energy efficient window style from sealing out unwanted cold air (a well designed/built tilt turn is arguably the tighest operating window style available), to allowing a maximum (for the size of the unit) of fresh air when desired.
I'm very familiar with the tilt-turn inswinging casements as I live in Europe right now. Problem is I can't seem to find a North American manufacturer. So if I want to use them when I build in the States I'll have to import them or find a distributor who does so - either option would be expensive. Do you know of any other resources for them, Oberon? I want to use real operable shutters on the south side. Inswinging casements provide plenty of room to get at the shutters and their hardware from inside the house. Outswinging, or American style, casements would make that impossible. I guess the only option would be double hung, but that doesn't give you so much room to reach out to the shutters, and they're leaky. Ideas?
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 17 Feb 2008 04:31 PM |
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Posted By Jelly on 02/17/2008 12:39 PM
I'm very familiar with the tilt-turn inswinging casements as I live in Europe right now. Problem is I can't seem to find a North American manufacturer. So if I want to use them when I build in the States I'll have to import them or find a distributor who does so - either option would be expensive. That is the exact understanding I gained talking to a local siding/window installer who sells one from Germany. I didn't seriously talk price on the tilt-turns, but I think they would be 3 - 4x the cost of Andersen. The best approach from an energy conservation standpoint, and one of the poorest from an aesthetic standpoint, is to minimize the amount of window area in your house. For my house design the HVAC calculation shows the windows to have over 8x the heat loss of the walls per square foot. For cooling, windows are 40x the load of the walls per square foot. I don't know what the payback would be for a super duper efficient window compared to Andersen. Considering my heat load calculation is only about 36k Btuh at the design coldest temp, and AC load is half that, I decided it wasn't worth the effort to keep driving down the energy load. I'm already looking at running the heating system well under it's design capability most of the time. And that's for a minimally sized system. |
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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blackdogarch
New Member
Posts:31
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| 18 Feb 2008 10:01 AM |
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Marvin has had tilt turn for almost 20 years, starting with importing the technology frrom a European manufacturer (if I recall the tour guides comment from a few years back). Call them directly and they will be very helpful.
They also make top quality duoble hungs.
Their Integrity line is fiberglass exterior (and available interior) a greener alternative to vinyl or aluminum cladding, and are very nicely built and tight. Your comment about double hungs is correct to a point. They do not lock down the way casements or awnings do, but most of the modern manufacturers have pretty tight systems.
You also have to consider the style of the house. Anything traditional, double or single hungs is the way to go, and if properly sized for egress codes or lighting and ventilation requirements will give you plenty of room to lean out and deal with the shutters. Our colonial fore-fathers (fore-persons?) did it for years. In a contemporary style, or even Craftsman traditional, casements and awnings should work well. Marvin and others also have casements with muntin bars that mimic the double hung look, ideal for egress windows in smaller openings, as well as style considerations. It is worth buying quality.
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Oberon
New Member
Posts:31
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| 19 Feb 2008 06:25 AM |
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Marvin is one of several North American companies that offers a tilt/turn window system; their Integrity line does not offer that option however.
Others include Kolbe, Dynamic windows, Innotech (Canadian vinyl window company), In line (Canadian fiberglass company)...there are more. I would suggest a Google search for tilt/turn, dual action, French casement windows. Several of these companies also offer triple pane options which may be something you might find of interest.
Another option that might interest you is Andersen's 400 series glider window. It is unlike almost any other glider that you will see on the North American market.
And while I am mentioning particular companies and products, in order to avoid a potential conflict-of-interest (because of my job) I do not recommed any particular company or product. I am simply offering ideas for research.
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Jelly
Veteran Member
Posts:1017
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| 19 Feb 2008 10:25 AM |
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Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like Kolbe only has inswinging casements in wood, and Dynamic states upfront that theirs are for the luxury market. I could probably get German vinyl ones for the same price or less. Innotech and In Line look promising, with vinyl and fiberglass respectively. Oberon, do you know how they compare in price to the more ubiquitous brands in the States?
Blackdogarch, you're right, I shouldn't say "leaky" regarding modern double-hungs. I might end up using them. But I would get exactly half the space to poke my head and shoulders out the double hung window as I would with an inswinging casement. When climbing out because of a fire I'm sure one wouldn't quibble about having to squeeze a little bit. But for everyday functionality and ergonomics I think it would make a difference.
Two inswinging casements side by side with a transom above delivers a very traditional look going back to before the Enlightenment. |
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blackdogarch
New Member
Posts:31
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| 19 Feb 2008 10:26 AM |
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Oberon is correct about the Integrity and tilt turn. I just mention them as a decent domestic line that has performed well on a number of my projects. There are also some Canadian manufacturers doing triple pane/fiberglass, but I do not know the price differential or availability southof the border.
Out of curiousity what do you find unique to the Andersen glider? Seems expensive for the size. Thanks.
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Oberon
New Member
Posts:31
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| 25 Feb 2008 07:05 AM |
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While most sliders/gliders are pretty standard (double hung on its side), the AW 400 series glider was designed specifically for the application. In some ways it is closer to a European glider than to a standard American one.
Operating this window is much like operating the rear door in a minivan - the way it opens, closes and locks into place. AW has a term for it but I can't remember what it is off the top-of-my-head this morning.
And it is an expensive window, no doubt about it. But if you are ever in a HD and see one on display, try it out - it is interesting.
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drogers
New Member
Posts:50
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| 04 Apr 2008 11:04 AM |
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If you live in an area with a lot of insects, keep in mind that the screens for casements and awnings are on the inside. This allows a closed window to trap insects on the living side of the glass. This can become rather unappetizing in some areas. |
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rancov
New Member
Posts:23
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| 07 Apr 2008 07:10 PM |
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Having sold luxury custom windows into homes as large as 35,000 s.f. I am very familiar with tilt turn windows. Typically they are not preferred in this country because they are not as energy efficient from an air infiltration standpoint versus an outswing casement. There is also this issue of the screen. The only screen available with a tilt/turn is fixed and mounted exterior. With a casement you can get roll down screens that stow away hidden when not needed. There a great many sources of tilt/turns in the U.S. Zeluck, Fenestra America, Point Five - all in the luxury category. Marvin and Kobe-Kolbe are a few of the more main line manufacturers that make them. To compare energy efficiency you must look at not only U-Value, SHGC, you must also understand air infiltration and that figure is typically not published on the NFRC website. You will have to ask a window manufacturer for the test date per category. For instance, I have seen test data for standard casements ( BiltBest custom windows and patio doors) for as low as .01 cubic foot per sq foot of sash per minute and test data on a tilt/turn (Fenestra America) of .3 per cubic foot per minute of s.f. of sash. In this instance, the tilt/turn air infiltration rate is 30 times higher than that of the os casement. You need to understand air infiltration carefully to make the comparison. I have many times calculated the total air changes per day for clients to show them the disparity. They have been shocked to see the difference between various types of windows (casement, tilt/turn, double hung, etc). They also then learn that with lower air infiltration they can actually install smaller HVC plants, saving even more money. |
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| Randy |
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Oberon
New Member
Posts:31
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| 14 Apr 2008 07:27 AM |
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There are tilt/turn windows available in North America with air infiltration rates at .003 cfm per sq foot of sash and with design pressure ratings of 100psf.
Since .3 is the maximum allowed per ASTM E283-04, and many companies list the reference and state that the meet the standards of...is it possible that the .3 was listed as the maximum allowed and not as their actual rating?
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