Was interested in getting opinions and experiences with the following window alternatives: Kolbe Ultra EP (1 3/8" triple pane glass) vs. Loewen with triple pane. Location is western Washington (wet and damp in the winter). Window types are casements and awnings. Thanks.

I installed all Ultra EPs in my new home...what is it you are after to know specifically? They are a very good, high quality window. I have installed many windows, and these, next to Marvin Premium, are at the top IMO.

Thanks, lzerarc. Looking for U-values in the mid 20s or better. Also sturdy and secure latching/locking. Watertight (wet climate).

Posted By MerlinMc on 28 Aug 2013 07:42 PM
Thanks, lzerarc. Looking for U-values in the mid 20s or better. Also sturdy and secure latching/locking. Watertight (wet climate).

The one concern when I looked at Kolbe was the cladding.  I haven't seen any of the windows in person, but when I looked at their information on their website, it seems as though the aluminum is a flat surface adjacent to the wood.  There might be some gap there, but it is very, very small.  It isn't clear why the water won't adhere to the wood and aluminum.  I am assuming that could be a big issue for you.  Many of the windows that I researched have minimal contact points between the aluminum and the wood, and the gap between the wood and the flat surface of the aluminum is very far away, for many it looks like between 0.25 - 0.5 inches away.

I wanted aluminum clad windows for low maintenance, but I didn't want to pay for nice wood because we didn't want a stained look.  We are already going with hardwood floors for the entire house, and we are using wood stained cabinets, too, so it would've been too much wood.  I think it is almost sacrilege to paint nice wood because it is so expensive, so that made us lean away from aluminum clad wood windows.  Our solution was to use a thermally broken aluminum window.  We get the low maintenance, the high performance, though not as good as aluminum clad wood windows, and we get to have two colors, one on the exterior and one on the interior.

Loewen didn't appear to have tilt/turn windows, so I didn't consider them.  I only looked at windows that were tilt/turn and had aluminum on the exterior.

My windows have the glass tuned per the elevation and function. I have high SHG mixed with low u. My best is u .17, and my higher SHG unit is .21 and .42 I believe (can not recall). They use Truth hardware, which is a very sturdy, stainless steel system. Very smooth and easy even with the heaving triple pane sashes. I have a patio door and a custom front door from them as well. They use triple locking hardware to pull the top, middle, and bottom of the door tight to the weather seals.
As far as construction, I have a quad factory mulled unit that is 8'x7' in side, made up of 4 units. 2 large fixed over 2 smaller awnings. It took 5 of use to install it, but I was amazed, despite the weight and the struggle, it did not flex at all at the mull joints and was very strong and study. The windows in general are very sturdy and installed very easily.
I have all casements, fixed, and a couple awnings. I can attest to their water tightness, as I have 2 casements in the basement and during construction the window wells flooded and filled with water. I had water standing half way up the glass, like I was looking into an aquarium. Not a single leak.

As far as the above comment on the metal, that is not correct. The Ultra series is an extruded aluminum clad window. The attachment point is a fairly minimal press fit joint in the center of the wood sash. Now, they do make a roll forms aluminum clad unit which is their Classic line. This does basically wrap the wood, which is most likely water you are thinking of. Roll formed, I agree, would have the water issue. Pella windows use roll form, and they have a lot of issues with this. Higher end aluminum windows are typically a thick extruded product (Marvin is extruded as well).

Here is my blog showing the windows installed in the home.
http://www.lizerhomestead.blogspot.com/2013/01/windows-and-doors-installed.html

Posted By lzerarc on 28 Aug 2013 11:11 PM
My windows have the glass tuned per the elevation and function. I have high SHG mixed with low u. My best is u .17, and my higher SHG unit is .21 and .42 I believe (can not recall). They use Truth hardware, which is a very sturdy, stainless steel system. Very smooth and easy even with the heaving triple pane sashes. I have a patio door and a custom front door from them as well. They use triple locking hardware to pull the top, middle, and bottom of the door tight to the weather seals.
As far as construction, I have a quad factory mulled unit that is 8'x7' in side, made up of 4 units. 2 large fixed over 2 smaller awnings. It took 5 of use to install it, but I was amazed, despite the weight and the struggle, it did not flex at all at the mull joints and was very strong and study. The windows in general are very sturdy and installed very easily.
I have all casements, fixed, and a couple awnings. I can attest to their water tightness, as I have 2 casements in the basement and during construction the window wells flooded and filled with water. I had water standing half way up the glass, like I was looking into an aquarium. Not a single leak.

As far as the above comment on the metal, that is not correct. The Ultra series is an extruded aluminum clad window. The attachment point is a fairly minimal press fit joint in the center of the wood sash. Now, they do make a roll forms aluminum clad unit which is their Classic line. This does basically wrap the wood, which is most likely water you are thinking of. Roll formed, I agree, would have the water issue. Pella windows use roll form, and they have a lot of issues with this. Higher end aluminum windows are typically a thick extruded product (Marvin is extruded as well).

Here is my blog showing the windows installed in the home.
http://www.lizerhomestead.blogspot.com/2013/01/windows-and-doors-installed.html

Hi,

I saw your windows, and I see that the aluminum is only touching in a very small area so that is a good thing.  I didn't look at any in person.  I only looked at the website.  If you look at the pdf files on their website for the heritage for the tilt/turn, it is confusing.  Does it look correct to you?  When I look at it, it looks like the aluminum is completely touching the wood, and it doesn't look like your window at all.

http://www.kolbe-kolbe.com/products/index.cfm?pcID=4&pID=51&pCat=7&pSubCat=71&pSeries=1&pl=145#top

not real sure what you are talking about. The Heritage line is an all wood window, no aluminum on the exterior so that is probably why it looks like there is no space there......

However the link you provided was for the Ultra Tilt and Turn, and in which case, would be the exact same as the ones I used and same detail.

Posted By lzerarc on 29 Aug 2013 08:44 AM
not real sure what you are talking about. The Heritage line is an all wood window, no aluminum on the exterior so that is probably why it looks like there is no space there......

However the link you provided was for the Ultra Tilt and Turn, and in which case, would be the exact same as the ones I used and same detail.

sorry, i meant ultra and wrote heritage.  it looks like the aluminum is a box with a cross brace to support the box.  one side of the box is what one sees, and the other side of the box looks like it is flush to the wood.  the side next to the wood looks like it is flat just as the side which is exposed.

lzerac, thanks very much for your responses to this thread and for your blog. Very helpful.

I really like the entry door you selected and had some questions. Is the exterior of the door covered with extruded aluminum? Does the door unit feel stout and sturdy, including the hinges and lockset? Assume Kolbe is using the same multi-point locking hardware they use on their windows along with a deadbolt, correct?

The entry door is a custom 3x8 door with 4 equal frost glass lites. It is a nice, heavy very solid door. the internal core is actually LVL wood with the same aluminum extruded cladding as on the windows. It is from the Ultra line. It has adjustable hinges with triple locking with a dead bolt. You pull the handle up to engage the upper and lower locking pins and then turn the dead bolt. All stainless steel hardware. All of the doors are keyed a like. Very happy with the door, get lots of compliments. The door is not triple glazing however, just dual. Very high quality door.

Posted By MerlinMc on 29 Aug 2013 01:20 PM
lzerac, thanks very much for your responses to this thread and for your blog. Very helpful.

I really like the entry door you selected and had some questions. Is the exterior of the door covered with extruded aluminum? Does the door unit feel stout and sturdy, including the hinges and lockset? Assume Kolbe is using the same multi-point locking hardware they use on their windows along with a deadbolt, correct?

Hi Merlin,

Have you looked at HHwindows?  they are based out of seattle, so I presume that is close to you.  I was considering them, but a few months ago when I needed to order my windows, they told me their lead time was 20 weeks due to a few big jobs in their pipeline, and that was just too long for me. 

hhwindows.com

I don't have any direct experience with them except getting a quote from them.  They weren't the cheapest or the most expensive, but at the time, I had to disregard them just due to the lead time.  The said their normal lead time is closer to 12 weeks. 

At least, you can maybe go and check out their factory seeing as you are aren't too far away.

Thanks for your thoughts, Eugene. I had looked at HH--both their product and their shop. They are putting together a proposal, so we'll see if they are price and delivery competitive. For aluminum clad, they want to do tilt-n-turn. Windows are open a fair amount here in the NW and most people don't seem to like inswing windows. Are you in the NW as well?

Posted By MerlinMc on 31 Aug 2013 12:14 PM
Thanks for your thoughts, Eugene. I had looked at HH--both their product and their shop. They are putting together a proposal, so we'll see if they are price and delivery competitive. For aluminum clad, they want to do tilt-n-turn. Windows are open a fair amount here in the NW and most people don't seem to like inswing windows. Are you in the NW as well?

No, I live in silicon valley.  i went with inswing windows, and it also isn't very popular here in the bay area.  I think we will have to adjust to the inswing windows, but I felt the tilt/turn windows were a nice touch and their performance is usually better.  For air flow, I am just counting on the tilt function.  I don't have any direct experience with the air flow in just tilt mode, but I am counting on it.  My house hasn't broken ground yet, so it will be some time before I can give any actual experience.

I just didn't like normal outswing casement windows.  Most of the windows I have seen, and presumably, they weren't cheap windows and some were brand new, it is very hard to turn the crank on big windows.  I jam my knuckles into the window sill, or I feel like I will break the crank.  I go to quite a few open houses that are very expensive to get ideas for my own home.

I also have many windows which will be french tilt/turn, or that is how it was defined to me.  The gist is that I will have an opening with 2 functioning windows, but only one can tilt, but there is no post in the middle when the both windows are open, and I am under the impression that these feature is not available to outswing casement windows.

For Kolbe, what are the opinions of their ThermaPlus dual pane versus their triple pane alternative? Thanks.

do not really know what you are asking...the triple pane will always be more efficient than a dual pane, but if the cost is too much, it may not be worth it. It was only about $60-80 per window for my build. They can do any kind of glass combination possible, typically for no extra cost or very little.

Loewen is SOLID coastal douglas fir. Kolbe is veneer over pine. At some point longevity and durability is important, right?