Looking for Ideas and Thoughts for Light Industrial Warehouse
Last Post 03 Jun 2010 06:23 AM by cmkavala. 43 Replies.
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MLMs ImagesUser is Offline
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27 Jan 2010 10:02 AM
I am going to be building a distribution center in southeast Saskatchewan. Our temperatires go from plus 35celcuis in the summer to minus 40celcius in the winter. I will be warehousing shoes and leather products. My sq footage is 7000 in the first phase this year and an additional 14000 sq ft within 2 years. The building is 54 x 124 to start. A permanent wall at the from 25' back from the front entrance. I will have a mezzanine 54' x 16 ft for office in the front 25'. My walls are 20'8" and I will have pallet shelving floor to ceiling every 8 ft on the long. So 8' by 100' My walls are R28 and my ceiling R40 I am looking for cost effective green ideas for my heating and cooling. Remember...I am female so I really need it in laymans terms so I can understand it. Thanks bunches


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02 Feb 2010 08:49 AM
How warm and cool can it be in the building without damaging the goods?


MLMs ImagesUser is Offline
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02 Feb 2010 09:34 AM
68 degrees F. I am carrying leather - shoes, bikers gear, that kind of thing. Its my PVC leather goods that concern me. If they get too warm they stick and will tear or at the leat leave ugly marks when pulled apart. BTW - thanks for responding. I really appreciate it. I should have corrected my previous post - temps get to minus 40 C in the winter.


cmkavalaUser is Offline
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02 Feb 2010 05:05 PM
Sounds like a perfect red iron skeleton clad with sips job


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
MLMs ImagesUser is Offline
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02 Feb 2010 05:47 PM
Can you explain? I already have the building. Its simply a postframe with R28 walls and R40 ceiling.


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02 Feb 2010 06:08 PM
Posted By MLMs Images on 02/02/2010 5:47 PM
Can you explain? I already have the building. Its simply a postframe with R28 walls and R40 ceiling.
Sorry, mis-understood when you said "I am going to be building a distribution center in southeast Saskatchewan"?

If you you are looking to find most cost effective HVAC system, I would contact your local power company, some have professional assistance. to help businesses design and implement energy efficient HVAC & lighting systems






Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
cmkavalaUser is Offline
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02 Feb 2010 06:21 PM

MLM,

but if you are going to build a new building that needs heated and cooled an ideal design is like the one below; a 80' x 100' clear span red iron frame with SIP cladding, roof purlins at 12 ft. oc. , white interior skins are very reflective and in this picture it is only natural lighting, as electric is not to building yet


Attachment: 100_0542.JPG

Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
MLMs ImagesUser is Offline
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03 Feb 2010 07:43 AM
I contacted our power company and they told me to read about BOMAS and LEED. They tell me geothermal heating is not an option for me because it has a 400% defienciency rate. With the distribution centre my pallet shelving is 20' high, so having windows in the warehouse wasn't an option for me. I am also told that skylights will take 60 years before I start seeing the benefits of it and that the lightening is only 20%, heating 50%. So I would have to add in another option. The builder has quoted me on a white metal clad interior. I would like to learn more about 80' x 100' clear span red iron frame with SIP cladding and see if its cost effective. I've already gone ahead with the 54' x 124' but I will be adding a phase 2 and 3. Phase 2 will be an additional 7000 sq ft in May 2011 and phase three is another 7000 sq ft in May og 2012.


MLMs ImagesUser is Offline
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03 Feb 2010 07:43 AM
BTW - is that Genie scissors lift I see in the pic?


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03 Feb 2010 07:53 AM
Posted By MLMs Images on 02/03/2010 7:43 AM
BTW - is that Genie scissors lift I see in the pic?

Yes it is , it is how we install our panels


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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03 Feb 2010 07:58 AM
Posted By MLMs Images on 02/03/2010 7:43 AM
I contacted our power company and they told me to read about BOMAS and LEED. They tell me geothermal heating is not an option for me because it has a 400% defienciency rate. With the distribution centre my pallet shelving is 20' high, so having windows in the warehouse wasn't an option for me. I am also told that skylights will take 60 years before I start seeing the benefits of it and that the lightening is only 20%, heating 50%. So I would have to add in another option. The builder has quoted me on a white metal clad interior. I would like to learn more about 80' x 100' clear span red iron frame with SIP cladding and see if its cost effective. I've already gone ahead with the 54' x 124' but I will be adding a phase 2 and 3. Phase 2 will be an additional 7000 sq ft in May 2011 and phase three is another 7000 sq ft in May og 2012.

MLM;

even if you have no widows it will take less to light electricall due the the high reflective
white.
if you are already planning on metal clad sips, then the white is at no additional expense

the cost of the rediron frame is about $4-5 sq. ft. of foot print,  plus installation


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
MLMs ImagesUser is Offline
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03 Feb 2010 09:06 AM
Is that not metal girters?


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03 Feb 2010 12:10 PM
Posted By MLMs Images on 02/03/2010 9:06 AM
Is that not metal girters?

the picture it is a rediron frame with 12 ft. high wall -no side girts and roof purlins @ 12 ft.
oc.,

for a 22 ft. high side wall you would need just 1 intermediate spandrel girt, to pick up any wind load


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
Bruce FreyUser is Offline
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05 Feb 2010 06:55 AM

MLM - Just our of curiosity, what is configuration of your first phase? 

Is it clear (column free) span across the 54' dimension? 

Is there an advantage to a column free interior?   Flat roof?  I assume snow load is a factor where you are.

What winter temperature do you want to maintain?  Just freeze protection?  or some level of worker comfort in the warehouse portion?

Skylights or clerestory windows (a strip of windows just under the roofline) do a good job of providing daylight into the interior spaces of warehouses.

Chris - What is your experience with flat (or very low slope) roofs with SIPS?

Bruce

 



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05 Feb 2010 10:55 AM
Hi Bruce and thanks for responding. I will do my best to answer your questions but you may have to ask me so I can understand, I am still in the learning process of all this with little time on my hands.

what is configuration of your first phase? Not sure what you mean by configuration but the first phase is 54 wide by 124 in length. The from 54' x 25' is showcase area.reception with an abobe Mezzanine with a winding staircase up to it.

Is it clear (column free) span across the 54' dimension? It is a clear with the exceotions of the pilings and columns for the Mezzanine. If you face the building your looking at 54'. There is a double glass door and 2 windows on each side of it. You step up into a deck to walk in. Once inside your on a round pad step that you step down to the reception area and the Mezzanine is above your hear. All you see the reception area and a double aluminun door to the warehouse. You walk through the warehouse doors and you see: On the right 2 washrooms, and pallet shevling that is 20' high and 48" wide with 5' walk ways between each. On the left you see a section where there is a long table where the wrappers are and to the left of that Shipping/Transport Office. Newxt to the office is a staff room and a 36" door going outside. If you walk to the back of ther warehouse there is a 8' space along the back wall of 54' you pass one overhead door on your left.

Is there an advantage to a column free interior? Yes. Slat walls on the ourside walls to displkay footwear and glass showcases that are 10' high with lights. Flat roof? yes - flat roog. I assume snow load is a factor where you are. Yes it is a factor but I am not sure what it is.

What winter temperature do you want to maintain? Winter temps I would like to maintain at 68 degrees F in the warehouse and in the showcase offices about 72 degrees F in the winter months. I am going to have to put in airconidtioning because of the hear in the summer months. Just freeze protection? Actually its the heat that scares me in the warehouse. I am carrying leathers, Patent leather will stick if its heated and become unsellable .
or some level of worker comfort in the warehouse portion? Working comfort is a huge factor. I bend over backwards for my employees because I know they bust their butts - without them I couldn't do this. They are my business.

Skylights or clerestory windows (a strip of windows just under the roofline) do a good job of providing daylight into the interior spaces of warehouses.

What is your experience with flat (or very low slope) roofs with SIPS? No experience yet....lol.....but I have been in a few of both checking out pros and cons.
The 2nd phase is an addition 7000 sq ft of nothing but pallet shelving so the building will then be 108 by 124 and the 3rd phase another 7000 sq ft of the same. In the end the building will measure 162 by 124 on 4 acres - the 3rd phase will have the raised loading docks. For now we are going to take out the walls as we go and add-on. The walls we take out will become like a overhead opening of 14 x 14 so the forklift and scissor lifts can move in and out.


cmkavalaUser is Offline
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05 Feb 2010 07:11 PM
Bruce ;

we have had great success with flat roofs commercial and residential, as well as flat sundecks decks as little as 1/4" per foot slope

http://southernsips.com/monroebusiness.html

http://southernsips.com/sunrockware.html

http://southernsips.com/jaxjob.html





Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
MLMs ImagesUser is Offline
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05 Feb 2010 09:19 PM
I am not sure what the purpose of the flat roofs are. As I said when I posted " I am looking for cost effective green ideas for my heating and cooling". Is this a means of being cost effecive for heating and cooling? My building is already designed so another building is not an option.


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06 Feb 2010 02:29 AM
Posted By MLMs Images on 02/05/2010 9:19 PM
I am not sure what the purpose of the flat roofs are. As I said when I posted " I am looking for cost effective green ideas for my heating and cooling". Is this a means of being cost effecive for heating and cooling? My building is already designed so another building is not an option.
MLM;

sometimes a thread will take a different direction, the flat roof was in response to Bruce's question that was directed to me and had nothing to do with your original topic.
The information may or may not be beneficial to your original topic, but may be of importance to someone else.
I don't think the roof pitch or configuration of your roof was ever discussed;
but as far as being cost effective , if you reduce the volume of conditioned space, it will reduce the cost to heat and cool it



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
Bruce FreyUser is Offline
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06 Feb 2010 06:22 AM

I was trying to understand the structural system and whether or not it had a flat roof.

If I understand correctly, it does have a flat roof and there are no intermediate columns (i.e., 1 span of 54' instead of 2 spans of 27').  I will also guess there are bar joists or trusses spanning across the short span of building with metal deck, insulation and roofing membrane.

Since you need cooling, you will probably need a rooftop HVAC unit will supply hot air or cold air as needed through distribution ductwork to various points on the interior.  I think you can do this with one unit, but you might consider splitting it into two units to provide some back up and redundancy.  The office/showroom should have a separate system.  If you have a boiler (see below), you could use hot water heating and a split system for airconditioning.

Hopefully the ductwork can be done within the truss space so it does not impact your usable height.

A rooftop unit is essentially a self contained heating, ventilating and air conditioning unit (also called a "package unit", because everything is in one "box") and there are a variety of different configurations.  The simplest is an air cooled, direct expansion (DX) to provide the air conditioning.  Heating possiblities include electric resistance (coils of wire) or hot water coils inside the rooftop unit in conjunction with an electric, gas or oil fired boiler.  Rooftop units with heat pumps are available, but you will need pure heating in any case.  If you did not need airbconditioning, the normal warehouse solution would be ventilation fans with electric or hot water "space heaters".

You really need to have a good engineer or HVAC contractor lay out the options for you.  The efficiency of the units has a significant impact on first cost with an offset for lower operating costs.  A unit with 100% outside air capability (to permit you to use "free cooling" when weather conditions permit) would probably be beneficial in your climate.

If you have a boiler, you will need space for it.

In any case, your structure should take into account the weight of the rooftop unit and you will need a way to access it for maintenance.

Since you have a warehouse, you probably have one or more loading docks with high bay doors.  You should consider making a vestibule for your loading/unloading operations.  This will help minimize your heating and cooling load and improve comfort. 

Many warehouses also use ceiling fans to prevent stratification (temperature differential between floor and ceiling), but you must be careful of your clearances.

You have a big volume to deal with and minimizing the heating and cooling loads are really important.  Having a roof with a high albedo (light colored, reflective) surface will save on AC unit size and running costs.

One last thought.....natural light (skylights or clerestory windows) provides a much better working environment than artificial light.

(Chris..thanks for the links.  I wasn't trying to hijack the thread)

Bruce





Bruce FreyUser is Offline
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06 Feb 2010 12:33 PM
Other "green" things you can in addition to choosing efficient equipment and minimizing heating and airconditioning loads with lots of insulation might include the following:

Your domestic hot water load will be small and you could probably meet almost 100% of it with a small solar collector.

You have lots of roof space for photo voltaic panels.  I have no idea what incentives may exist or what the payback might be for you.  The roof would need to be able to support the additional load.

Consider an intensive green roof.  It will help to minimize your heat gain and buffer the stormwater runoff.  This is also a roof load issue.

Can you collect rainwater for irrigation?

Use material with recycled content.

Make sure you (and your contractor) recycle waste materials.

Use low VOC paint and finishes.

Consider a pervious paving system.

Use motion sensors for lighting control.

I am sure there are many more items, but these are ones that came to mind.

Bruce


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