Glass is Green
New Member
Posts:60
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| 08 Jul 2011 03:53 AM |
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1.The benefits to a green home are twofold—first they are better for the environment, yourself,
and your family and, second, they save you money over the life of the home.
2.Green homes can offer significant financial benefits such as:
Proper insulation and air sealing will keep your heating and cooling costs lower, while efficient
windows, appliances, lighting, and other household equipment will lower your electricity bills.
3.Green homes are built with high-quality building materials so they are more
4.As the market demand continues to rise for green homes, investing in a green home now can
mean increased value in the future.
5.Green homes often include the following additional benefits
6.Health benefits: Green homes use toxin-free building materials, utilize natural ventilation
7.Environmentally friendly: Green homes use less energy than comparable standard homes.
Often, green homes use alternative energy sources, reducing dependence on conventional
energy sources.
8.Use fewer natural resources: Green building uses fewer natural resources, and many of the
materials used have recycled contents, keeping with the “resource conservation”
green principle. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 08 Jul 2011 09:49 AM |
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3.Green homes are built with high-quality building materials so they are more More what? Is there a particular definition of "green" that you are using to measure these against? Also, I think it is arguable whether there is much of a market yet for green homes. I haven't seen the local real estate agencies with any pages of "green" home listings. |
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Shingobee
New Member
Posts:1
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| 15 May 2012 01:52 PM |
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These are some good pointers. But anyone can just say they do all of that stuff. To make sure you're getting the real deal when you're looking for a green contractor, you should check their qualifications. You know you can trust them if they're LEED certified. Also, I think it is arguable whether there is much of a market yet for green homes. I haven't seen the local real estate agencies with any pages of "green" home listings. -ICFHybrid - The market for green homes is definitely booming. We've noticed an increase in demand over the past years that only continues to rise as people gain more knowledge about the issues with the environment and also how much they can save from green initiatives. |
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Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
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| 15 May 2012 02:11 PM |
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LEED is an accounting and documention game, where actual energy performance on the resulting building can be all over the place. LEED certification means less to me than engineer/architects who have a track record of designing and delivering the performance than folks who are good at keeping track of all the materials but might miss the big picture. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 15 May 2012 09:26 PM |
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The market for green homes is definitely booming. Really? What is your definition of "booming"? A quick perusal of the local real estate booklet reveals exactly ZERO green homes advertised. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 16 May 2012 06:01 AM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 15 May 2012 09:26 PM
The market for green homes is definitely booming. Really? What is your definition of "booming"? A quick perusal of the local real estate booklet reveals exactly ZERO green homes advertised.
It depends on your market area. Green homes might be non-existent in the RE booklet in Green Bay, Wisconsin but green homes might be very popular in San Diego California. Either way, building "green" is not inexpensive. The initial investment is high with a ROI in 5-10 years, usually. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 16 May 2012 08:26 AM |
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Green homes might be non-existent in the RE booklet in Green Bay, Wisconsin but green homes might be very popular in San Diego California.
I don't think that is anything which would lend credence to the theory that the market for green homes is booming. Just the opposite, as a matter of fact. Green Bay has about five times the heating season that San Diego does. Moreover, I live in the Pacifc Northwest. If there is going to be a market for green homes, this is one of the places you will find it first. |
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Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
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| 16 May 2012 11:25 AM |
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In the PNW the "green" on green homes is the moss & algae growing on the roofs & siding, right? ;-) |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 16 May 2012 05:18 PM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 16 May 2012 08:26 AM
Green homes might be non-existent in the RE booklet in Green Bay, Wisconsin but green homes might be very popular in San Diego California.
I don't think that is anything which would lend credence to the theory that the market for green homes is booming. Just the opposite, as a matter of fact. Green Bay has about five times the heating season that San Diego does. Moreover, I live in the Pacifc Northwest. If there is going to be a market for green homes, this is one of the places you will find it first.
I am not saying it is booming but merely making a point that green "sells" more in a market like San Diego than it would in other markets. Places that tend to be more environmentally minded. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 16 May 2012 06:32 PM |
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I am not saying it is booming but merely making a point that green "sells" more in a market like San Diego than it would in other markets. I think that what people like to buy, particularly in San Diego, is the concept of environmentalism. Actual energy efficiency not so much, especially if there is a price tag on it. I'm sure they are out there, but I haven't really happened across any builders who are doing green spec homes. They would lose their shirt. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 16 May 2012 06:33 PM |
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In the PNW the "green" on green homes is the moss & algae growing on the roofs & siding, right? ;-) Ha Ha. Right. Because removing the moss and algae would probably be bad for the environment. :-) |
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Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
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| 17 May 2012 11:44 AM |
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That's right! What's the R-value per inch of (all natural, carbon sequestering, renewable & sustainable) moss, anyway? :-D |
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knotET
New Member
Posts:89
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| 18 May 2012 05:44 PM |
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what is the r value of the moss at night time when it gives off co2 and when it's dying decomposing. Oh the florality of it all !! |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 18 May 2012 11:20 PM |
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What I do know is that the 2012 IRC with the R-49 attic insulation code is making the truss and cellulose companies happy.
Creating vaulted ceilings will pose a serious challenge to most architects as a flat ceiling with trusses that allow for massive attics is the easier route to go. Nobody really "stick frames" a roof anymore, except custom homes. Tract homes all use trusses as they are cheap and fast.
I wonder what all the weight from the cellulose will do to the 5/8 ceiling drywall?? I can see ceiling cracks and separation happening over time. Ceiling drywall is not meant to bear any weight except for its own weight. If you ever have a roof leak and it soaks that cellulose, get ready for a ceiling collapse, as the weight of water soaked cellulose is significant.
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 19 May 2012 10:35 AM |
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Attics tall enough to be walked in and contain deep insulation can really benefit by having a catwalk installed above the insulation. It is far safer and easier to walk on a catwalk above the insulation to make an inspection for leaks than trying to find a ceiling joist or bottom chord of a truss to step on. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 19 May 2012 05:54 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 19 May 2012 10:35 AM
Attics tall enough to be walked in and contain deep insulation can really benefit by having a catwalk installed above the insulation. It is far safer and easier to walk on a catwalk above the insulation to make an inspection for leaks than trying to find a ceiling joist or bottom chord of a truss to step on.
I think catwalks will become "mandatory" as the attics get deeper and taller. There needs to be something in place to do inspections and/or repairs. A catwalk is pretty easy and quick to do for the builder. |
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Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
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| 21 May 2012 02:26 PM |
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Posted By Lbear on 18 May 2012 11:20 PM
What I do know is that the 2012 IRC with the R-49 attic insulation code is making the truss and cellulose companies happy.
Creating vaulted ceilings will pose a serious challenge to most architects as a flat ceiling with trusses that allow for massive attics is the easier route to go. Nobody really "stick frames" a roof anymore, except custom homes. Tract homes all use trusses as they are cheap and fast.
I wonder what all the weight from the cellulose will do to the 5/8 ceiling drywall?? I can see ceiling cracks and separation happening over time. Ceiling drywall is not meant to bear any weight except for its own weight. If you ever have a roof leak and it soaks that cellulose, get ready for a ceiling collapse, as the weight of water soaked cellulose is significant.
R49 is only a requirement for US climate zones 4 & higher per IRC 2012, which is far from universal. That is an increase up from R38 per IRC 2009 in zones 4 & 5, but unchanged for climate zones 6 and higher. In climate zones 2 & 3 it's R38. (Up from R30.) In climate zone 1 it's R30 (the way it's been for awhile now.) Building it with OSB (detailed as part of the primary air barrier) to support the insulation, and half-inch drywall ceiling under a horizontal electrical chase seems like the right solution to the sag & weight issue. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 23 May 2012 12:31 AM |
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R49 is only a requirement for US climate zones 4 & higher per IRC 2012, which is far from universal.
That is an increase up from R38 per IRC 2009 in zones 4 & 5, but unchanged for climate zones 6 and higher.
In climate zones 2 & 3 it's R38. (Up from R30.)
In climate zone 1 it's R30 (the way it's been for awhile now.)
Building it with OSB (detailed as part of the primary air barrier) to support the insulation, and half-inch drywall ceiling under a horizontal electrical chase seems like the right solution to the sag & weight issue.
There will be added cost of the OSB on the underside of the ceiling. I wonder how tract home builders will address this issue. It's hard to get people to pay for something they can't visually see, energy savings is more difficult to get across as a selling point for most people. To 90% of the people, R38 or R49 is Latin talk. |
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Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
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| 23 May 2012 04:01 PM |
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I suspect tract house builders will opt to stick with 3/4" gypsum and go with blown fiberglass at roughly half the density of cellulose, but that's not necessarily how to build if you care about the actual performance, or the long term integrity of the ceiling air-barrier.
But energy performance of the building envelope has always been a pretty tepid sales point at best in the mass market. Even though the difference in comfort factor between a code-min @ lowest-cost and a more premium insulation & air sealing package can be large, the average home buyer is more apt to attribute higher comfort to the heating & cooling mechanicals than the insulation. |
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greentree
Advanced Member
Posts:587
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| 23 May 2012 08:43 PM |
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I dont know why this issue keeps coming up, R49 cellulose is within published gypsum insulation load capacities. |
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