Help deciding structure matieral
Last Post 26 Mar 2009 11:36 AM by renangle. 21 Replies.
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lissadUser is Offline
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14 Mar 2009 07:23 PM

My husband and I are planning on building a home soon in Mississppi.  The area is rich in clay.  Temps range from 10 degrees in winter to 100 in summer and its severely humid most of the time.  I am wanting a house that is able to withstand high winds ( tornado and hurricane).  We plan to have a basement as well.  My question is what would be the best matieral ( icf or etc)  and  the best way to combat the leak/moisture issue.  Also,  any good contractors that work in the area of Mississippi would be a big help.

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15 Mar 2009 07:33 AM
First, some questions.
Where in MS are you located, and what is the topography of your building site?
Having a lot of experience with clay soils, I am hesitate to recommend a basement in MS unless your site allows for a walkout basement. This allows for a gravity flow drainage system which can keep your basement dry. The terrain, soil conditions, and high water tables of that area mean that the system will be draining water 90+% of the time. With a total inground basement, you are dependant on sump pump systems--an electric main pump with battery powered backup pump. But should you loose power long enough for the batteries to run down, then you have instant swimming pool. And no, you cannot 'water proof' your basement and keep the water out. If you don't give the water an alternative, it WILL get into the basement.
That being said, I would suggest you look at ICFs for your structure. SIPS would also be acceptable, with emphasis on metal skinned in the southern half of the state.
With more specific questions, we can provide more specific answers.
Have fun with your home.


Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
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15 Mar 2009 08:15 AM
Thanks for the info.  We havent actually havent purchased the land yet.  I wanted to get the type of info you provided before we did.  If a basment of any type isnt the best option, we would go for a more flat terrain.  I am very interested in the walkout basement idea, though.  My reason for asking is because I plan to have my bedrooms in the lower portion, granted we can keep out the moisture. We are planning in the Meridian area of MS, which is in the Eastern portion, if that makes any difference.  I have known some people that were able to build an earth sheltered home in the northern portion of MS, but I believe the clay in our area would be too problematic for that type of home. 

Again if anyone in the area is a contractor or can recommend an experienced one to assist us, that would be great.  I believe the idea of ICF is still relatively new to the area. 

We are just in the planning stage but planning to have everything built and finished by next summer.
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15 Mar 2009 08:46 AM
ICFs are the way to go, use a 6" or 8" below grade and a 6" above grade. A concrete roof is ideal, but expense may be a factor.

Read the posts on this site and research things to form your own opinion. Hire a general contractor.
Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
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15 Mar 2009 11:50 AM
Lisa,
In your case, I think the topography of the site is more important than the soil type. As long as you give the water a place to go other than into your basement, you can build a dry basement. As you are planning to have bedrooms in the basement level, you certainly need to look for land with enough slope to allow for a walkout basement. Remember that bedrooms are required by code to have windows large enough to meet egress requirements. (Basically a 3'x5' double hung, or larger) Since you don't have the land yet, look for a sloping hillside, to start with.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
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15 Mar 2009 12:42 PM
I fully concur with ICF Construction. ICF's, have many additional benefits. I am sure that you should be able to find a qualified ICF contractor in your area - you are certainly at the right place!!!
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15 Mar 2009 04:51 PM

Lisa,

A nice sloping lot with the back of the home facing South would be ideal for a walk-out basement and passive\active solar.  Of course, overhangs sized correctly for your latitude would be very important.  I would have a tendency to oversize the overhangs slightly since cooling is more important than heating in most of Mississippi.

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Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
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15 Mar 2009 08:50 PM
wow thanks for the great ideas. This is defenitly give us something good to look at when we are deciding on land. And I see everyone agrees that ICF is the way to go. I have researched the many benefits in using ICF. Yes Alton cooling is always the issue in Mississippi. I will surely incorporate a larger overhang into our design. Thanks for the info. And Thanks Wes I believe I have talked my husband into a walkout basement and I appreciate the code info. Im sure we can find an unwanted piece of sloped land to fit our needs. thanks again this forum is a gold mine of info.
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15 Mar 2009 10:43 PM

Lisa,
Feel free to e-mail me with any questions that you might have dealing with design and products to be used in the structure and home.  Since I retired in 2004 from the School of Architecture at Auburn University, I donate a lot of my free time answering questions and making suggestions through e-mail mostly.  It is my way of giving back.  I do try to limit my assistance to homes in the South where I have lived the last 34 years.

Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979
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16 Mar 2009 06:41 AM
Lisa,
After consulting my map of MS, I see that Meridian is just a few miles from the big city of Union, MS. which happens to be the home of a General Panels SIPS mfg plant. Now, we have talked a lot about the use of ICFs for walls, but SIPS should be considered for the roof structure of your home. Also, General Panel is one of the mfg partners of Logix ICFs, which I consider to be one of the best brands available. I don't know if they make any ICFs at Union, but I know they could help with finding local ICF contractors, and with procurement of your product needs.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
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16 Mar 2009 07:57 AM
Sips would make a very good choice, especially for vaulted and timber framed.
Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
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19 Mar 2009 10:07 AM
The comments recommending SIPS and/or ICF foundations should be tempered with a discussion of their shortcomings in this geographic area. Firstly, The clay conditions imply poor drainage. ICF foundations are a challenge to waterproof because solvent-based asphaltic waterproofing must not be used as the solvents will attack the styrofoam. An alternate sure-fire system must be planned. Secondly, the styrofoam in the ICF blocks as well as the SIPS is subject to insect attack, particularly in the South. Styrofoam must be treated to repel insects; many of these building products are not treated and the manufacturers ignore the risks. Styrofoam panels can be hollowed out all the way to the roof if insects find an entry point.
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19 Mar 2009 01:07 PM
fwriepe,
I have spent the 25 years dealing with the drainage (or lack thereof) caused by clay soils. I have found that ICF basements are as easy to keep dry as any other type of walls. The 'secret' is not in the wall material, but how you keep the water away from the walls. We have had good luck (ie, never had a leak) with a system of peel and stick membrane, dimple board with geotextile mesh, lots of clean drainage rock, and good quality drain tile as part of a gravity flow system. Combine this with a floor system set over 2" of insulation and 8" of clean stone with drain tiles to break the hydrostatic pressure produced by the ground water, and you get a warm, dry basement that is totally isolated from the native soils around it.
As to the insects, I treat EPS the same as wood. Borates are a good thing.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
lissadUser is Offline
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19 Mar 2009 06:00 PM
yes insects in MS are indeed an issue. i often joke that the termites must be holding on real tight during a hurricane at my parents 200yr old home. There house stucture is actually done by whole and halved trees. Again, lots of good things to think about. Wes, I believe we might just have to get you down to MS when we start building, lol. Also, fwriepe,would you reccommend using something other than ICF or SIPS?

Lissa
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19 Mar 2009 06:15 PM
Posted By lissad on 03/14/2009 7:23 PM

My husband and I are planning on building a home soon in Mississppi.  The area is rich in clay.  Temps range from 10 degrees in winter to 100 in summer and its severely humid most of the time.  I am wanting a house that is able to withstand high winds ( tornado and hurricane).  We plan to have a basement as well.  My question is what would be the best matieral ( icf or etc)  and  the best way to combat the leak/moisture issue.  Also,  any good contractors that work in the area of Mississippi would be a big help.



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
buck3647User is Offline
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19 Mar 2009 06:25 PM
I am a believer in monolithic concrete construction with iexterior insulation closed cell foam
www.safedomes.com
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19 Mar 2009 08:44 PM
But seriously....

Most houses with basements have a stoop ideal for a safe-room underneath it for minimum additional cost.
Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
fwriepeUser is Offline
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20 Mar 2009 02:23 PM
Lissa, I am developing a new building system that addresses these problems and many others. It is called system.5.aac but is not yet on the market. It is autoclaved aerated concrete (AAC) married to wood framing without sheathing and made composite with high-density closed-cell polyurethane foam. A patent is pending. It yields R-33. Frank W. Riepe, AIA
Earthship 360User is Offline
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25 Mar 2009 08:12 PM
The best wall is made of thermal mass AND insulation... The Primary Building Block of Earthship Biotecture Indigenous: The rubber of the tire (sometimes steel belted) is indigenous all over the planet as a 'natural resource'. Every city is a natural supplier of this item. It can be 'harvested' with absolutely no technical devices or energy other than two people to pick up and throw into a pickup truck. The tire is readily available without the energy and fuel/pollution impact of shipping building materials to every potential building site. Able to be fashioned with little or no energy: The automobile tire can be used as found without any modification. The process of ramming them full of denselt packed earth is achieved with simple human labor and can be done with whatever type of earth is available on the building site. Common people of all shapes and sizes can easily learn to gather tires and pack them full of earth with simple hand tools and with the same type of human energy that they use while trying to tone up their bodies in the local spa. The impact of large scale uuse of this idea would result in depletion of the giant tire mountains that have become a serious problem in many cities. This building block is therefore achievfed with little or no manufactured additional energy. Thermal Mass: There are few materials, if any that would provide better, more dense mass for storing temperature than rammed earth. The rubber tire casings provide a natural form for humanly manageable production of thermal mass building blocks with little more than human energy. There are very few materials that would provide the structural bearing capacities and homogenous qualities of an earth rammed tire wall. The diameter of the tires (2'-4") sets the thickness for the walls at 2'-8" with plaster, finish. This amount of dense mass surrounding every room of an earthship provides a thermal battery like no other in construction history. Durability: the durability of tires filled with earth can not be surpassed. A buried tire (which is in effect what we have in a tire wall) will virtually last forever. The only thinf that deteriorates rubber tires is sunlight or fire. Since they are filled with earth and ultimately covered with earth, they never see sunlight when built into an earthship. Tires only burn when surrounded by air. when they are filled and coated with earth, trying to get them to burn would be like trying to light a phonebook on fire as compared to a wad of paper. The very quality of tires that makes them a problem to society (the fact that they wont go away) makes them an ideal durable building material for earthships. Earth and tires by virtue of their very nature will last forever. Resilient: Whereas a rubber tire/rammed earth wall is amazingly strong, it is obviously not brittle. It can vibrate or move without fracture of failure. Since these walls are so wide and the loading on them is widely distributed, the entire structure would have the potential of absorbing and moving with considerable horizontal shock from an earthquake. There is probably no other matierla available at any price that has the reliance that earth rammed tires would have. They do provide a dense, rubbery, flexible wall. Low specific skill requirements: Thousands of people all over the world have learned how to 'pound tires' Within one or two hours the average human can be an expert. It requires physical energy more than brite strength. A team of two people, one shoveling and one pounding, can pound about four tires an hour. The shoveling job is easiest while the pounding requires a little more strength and energy. The general application of common human capabilities is definitely all that is required here. This is a skill that the very lowest people on the labor force can become good at. Low tech use/application: The only real major piece of equipment needed to build a tire building is a backhoe. This is a common piece of equipment needed for all buildings of any type. Backhoes and operators rent almost anywhere for 30 - 50 $US per hour. Other typical toosl needed are a chain saw, skill saw, and a cement mixer. Common people use these tools all the time and theu are very easily accessible to all. This places the building of an earthship easily within reach of typical contractors and owner builders.
Earthship Biotecture<br>www.earthship.com<br>[email protected]
Barney LoweUser is Offline
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26 Mar 2009 08:04 AM
Earthshio;

intresting concept , I have seen it before, I do not believe it works good in all soils.

Our ancestors were cave dwellers that relied on thermal mass too, but i don't intend to crawl back into one. A cardboard box is a little more appealing, maybe I am from a nomadic tribe? :)
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