I think wood basements have great potential, with todays outer drainage boards you are isolating the wood from earth contact with a material that will never go bad.

Unfortunately, i think you'd take a hit in the pants if you ever tried to sell. Personally, my next personal house will have a strong possibility of having a wood basement but i would never buy a house with an existing wood basement. Too many details to get right and too many hacks out there.

I personally have 2 wood foundations in our extended family. One has been in service since the early 80's, working just fine in sandy soil, I've never personally inspected it. The other is my father-in-laws that was built in 2001.

This is a walkout in well draining soil, finished basement. I monitor wall performance in a couple areas from time to time in a couple of unfinished areas, i also routinely monkey with my blower door and thermal cameras here as it is our lake house vaca destination quite often, and thats what I do on vacations, and have never seen an issue anywhere in this basement BUT I dont think the sump pit has ever had water in it. The builders,( not me it was just prior to me bedding his daughter) installed a vapor barrier over fiberglass in the bays which I was sure would lead to long term issues. The first time I sliced the barrier open expecting to find dampness I was surprised to find cavities completely dry, unstained, no evidence of any trouble. I've been giving this basement the hard stare multiple times a year since 2003.

I think its an intriguing idea, the only problem is all the idiot, or maybe sheep, mentality that you see in the posts above which could kill you if you tried to sell.

Greentree
I'm completely baffled why you would build a house that you may not be able to sell (" i would never buy a house with an existing wood basement")
I understand that you believe in the technique, and I understand that it works in some applications, but why would you make the investment knowing that you may not get it back?

Greentree,
You mentioned drainage boards. Please give me some more info on them. All the construction recommendations for permanent wood foundations I've seen talk about porous fill (gravel & sand) but none mentions a drainage board. But something like ROXUL "drainboard" covered with a porous 'landscape' fabric sure could add really permanent drainage plane.

If only these forums could be monitored to prevent people from resorting to silly name-calling. Calling people "idiots" is simply an abusive ad hominem attack. One can disagree but resorting to name calling just shows immaturity.

Treated lumber is not rot proof, nor is it guaranteed to be pest/termite proof. One only needs to research treated lumber and see how often issues come up about treated lumber still being eaten by termites and experiencing rot and pest/rodent issues.

When it comes to building for a lifetime, I look at human history and geology. Just look at the Egyptian pyramids, South American ancient tombs, Eastern temples, European castles, Asian structures, etc, that are still standing in the world today. One thing they all have in common is they all are made from rock. The Great Pyramids are still standing after thousands of years as are temples in Central and South America. Europe has castles that are hundreds & hundreds of years old that are still in excellent condition. Concrete is nothing more than artificial rock. The modern day concrete skyscrapers, the concrete dams, the concrete highway overpasses, etc, are built to stand for hundreds of years.  The older wood structures that are standing here in the USA have something that we can't replicate. The old growth & dense lumber they were built with can't even be compared to modern day lumber.

My point is that building a basement with treated wood is not "greener" than building out of concrete. There are studies showing the chemicals used in treated lumber pollute water tables, crops and the environment. So the whole "greener" argument is therefore voided. If one wants to build a wood basement because it is cheaper than concrete, that is also debatable because finding a QUALIFIED contractor who knows how to build a wood basement will be difficult and one will pay a premium for that. Once you do all the extra costs and labor steps to properly seal it, you are hovering around concrete costs.

I just don't see the benefits of building a wood basement. That's my view. One can disagree with me but leave the name calling out.

Lbear, I'm sorry you were offended I called you an idiot, I dislike the "crap idea because its not done that way" argument.

Bob, I would build my own home with a wood foundation knowing that it would be a tougher sell because I would be believing in the idea regardless of how the market feels about it. Gamble, yes...stupid, maybe but I would get the chance to try it and evaluate it and I'm fine with that. If I did do it, it would be with some reservations because of the obscurity of it but I would give it a real hard look.

Stainless fasteners and the hardware that needs to go into them would cost a small fortune and alot of the treated lumber is real inconsistent, plus I dont know how I feel about the chemicals in treated right behind the drywall so I'm not completely sold but it has some great benefits with one of the biggest to me is taking full control of the houses foundation.

Lbear,

Did your last paragraph say what you meant?  Or did it say the opposite of what you meant?

I would be very hesitant to build a basement with chemically poisoned wood.  That is a lot of chemicals to be exposed to on an every day basis.  However, if my client insisted on a wood basement, then I would explore the idea of using TimberSIL Glass Wood.  See http://www.timbersilwood.com/ or heat treated wood.

Alton,
Interesting link. I thought all lumber to be used in a pwf needed to be "foundation grade"? I looked through some of Timbersils links and didn't see anything one way or another.

I totally agree on the chemical concern, thats a lot of chemical your enclosing into the basement of your building, .6 pcf of CCA.

Off the Wolmanized website their formula is 47.5% hexavalent chromium, 18.5% copper and 34% arsenic (pentavalent arsenate) they say that is inorganic naturally occurring. Maybe a chem whiz can shed some light on the risks of that cocktail.

Posted By Alton on 07 Oct 2012 08:12 PM
Lbear,

Did your last paragraph say what you meant?  Or did it say the opposite of what you meant?

I would be very hesitant to build a basement with chemically poisoned wood.  That is a lot of chemicals to be exposed to on an every day basis.  However, if my client insisted on a wood basement, then I would explore the idea of using TimberSIL Glass Wood.  See http://www.timbersilwood.com/ or heat treated wood.

I updated and edited the paragraph. I should proofread better next time...

My experience with chemical/pressure treated wood has not been good. I installed a 3-post fence out of green treated lumber. I was told to wear gloves when handling treated lumber and to wash my hands and clothes very thoroughly after handling because the treated lumber chemicals bleed onto clothing & skin. It could not be used in or near food areas, food crops, or water sources.

After the fence install the chemicals dried out and that was 6 years ago. Today, that fence has twisted, split, warped, bent, and did everything but remain straight and true. The treated lumber always had a funky smell to it and the lesson I learned is that treated lumber will not remain true and when the chemicals dry out they off-gas and leach into the soil. My concrete and steel posts remain standing and straight.

Arsenic is a deadly poison and carcinogen. In high amounts (drinking water) it can cause liver and kidney disease, along with cancer and death if small amounts are ingested over a period of time. High doses will lead to death very quickly. Also known as the "silent killer".

Hexavalent chromium is also "naturally occurring" in nature but it is also a deadly compound and monitored by the EPA. Water is tested for Chromium & the EPA had determined some time ago that hexavalent chromium can cause cancer in humans when they are exposed to it by breathing & ingesting it. EPA REPORT  Long story short, it's deadly and toxic and will leach into soils and the water supply. If you are bored and want to read more, here is a 300 page report in Sep 2010 about the toxic effects of HC - EPA STUDY ON CHROMIUM

Building a wood basement and having these chemicals breathed by the homeowners and also leaching into the soil and the well water supply is not what I call "green" or a wise choice in basement designs when it comes to the health of the occupants and the health of the environment.

So I read Southern Pine Councils guide to pwf, which is our code reference to their proper construction. The guide limits foundation wall height to 8' and backfill height to 86" which is a deal breaker for myself. Perhaps taller could be engineered?

The insulation section was also a little weird in regard to omitting lower wall insulation in cold climates, max insulation recommended in freezing climates is top plate to 2' below grade, kind of blows the insulation advantage.

EPA allows unfinished CCA treated in interior living spaces with no sealer.

For walkouts there are some interior shear wall requirements for unbalanced lateral loads which I hadn't noticed before, and my father-in-laws basement does not have. I'll let you all know when his collapses.

This guide is available free when you search for it, otherwise you have to buy it from Southern Pine Council.

Speaking of treated wood, I was walking through Lowe's and checked out the lumber, take a look at how twisted this treated piece of lumber became:



Much of the lumber was split and I had a hard time finding a piece of wood that wasn't split:




I've seen old homes that have old growth lumber, it's quite amazing on the difference in the quality of yesteryear's lumber compared to today. The Glulam beams of today are really good quality but those are engineered pieces of wood and they are pricey.