Double Wall with Ridgid foam between walls
Last Post 12 May 2016 01:46 PM by billnaegeli. 9 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages Informative
peirheadUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:6

--
16 Mar 2016 07:15 PM
I have been reading about the great variety of double wall construction variations and their pros and cons.  Nowhere have I seen the use of rigid foam panels between the stud walls....To me this seems to solve many issues and be extremely efficient. Example would be 2x4 (or 2x6)  exterior wall insulated as desired, then 2 layers of 1" polyiso or polyurethane....this provides your interior vapor barrier, next on your inside another 2x4 wall to hold the bulk of your electrical and plumbing without penetrating your vapor layer...then insulate the interior 2x4 wall as desired....I realize it would be difficult to put the rigid board up if both walls are framed, necessitating framing the interior wall after the 2st wall is insulated and the rigid foam is up.  I am not a big fan of thick foam insulation on the exterior a house, nor do I like the poly vapor barrier with all the outlets and penetrations......is this idea nuts? or... love your feedback
Bob IUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:1435

--
16 Mar 2016 07:23 PM
I'm a builder and have considered that as well as other modifications. In short,we've learned it will not work from a practical perspective. The ideal insulation encapsulates the whole house and keeps all framing warn and dry. Now that we have double walls "down", we'll start doing exterior insulation and see how practical that actually is. (we have used the technique on retrofits)
Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant
chrsUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:136

--
17 Mar 2016 05:46 PM
Bob, exterior foam on double walls would require very thick foam to avoid moisture risk, since risk is determined by the ratio of R values. Are you thinking of exterior mineral wool? That would be much safer.
peirheadUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:6

--
17 Mar 2016 07:23 PM
My proposal was to put the 2" of foam between the framed double walls, precisely for the reason of vapor issues,  As Bob I suggests above, practicality is probably the big issue unless you could easily slip the ridid sheets between the stud walls.
BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:2010

--
18 Mar 2016 09:47 AM
If you have an off-set double-wall I fail to see the benefit of foam save perhaps under the siding for radiant reflection.

http://www.rimainternational.org/index.php/myths/
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
Bob IUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:1435

--
18 Mar 2016 10:16 AM
I'm going with foam exterior insulation for starters and will try rock wool at some point. Rock wood board can be installed similar to foam, but adjusting it for depth is somewhat difficult and time consuming since it easily compresses much more than foam sheets. Batts would work, but you'll need framing in which to place them. Exterior blown in cellulose or rock wool, covered by a good fabric also works well, and is a tested technique, but I'm not yet convinced that this method doesn't invite colonies of living creatures to nest. Time will tell us if these methods will work for the long term.
Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant
LieblerUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:334

--
30 Apr 2016 09:59 PM
If you are going to have double stud walls the only advantage ANY foam has is it increases the cost and reduces the "green". Cellulose, Blown in fiberglass or mineral wool are all fine insulation materials for any double stud design and cost much less than foam. Regardless of wall construction an air barrier is required.
Sheathing the outer surface of the inner wall in a double stud design can be an excellent air barrier. Usually this position of the sheathing requires a modification of the construction sequence where the outer wall is erected without sheathing, the inner wall is erected sheathed then after installing insulation the optional exterior (vapor permeable) sheathing is installed.
jonrUser is Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member
Send Private Message
Posts:5341

--
01 May 2016 11:25 AM
Would be interesting to know what the alleged "issues" are with double walls. As far as I know, if they follow good practices like "breathable to both sides, more so to the cold side", "air barrier on both sides" and "vent gap", they work well.
Dana1User is Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member
Send Private Message
Posts:6991

--
02 May 2016 04:07 PM
This guy did a decent job of it with continuous rock wool between the walls, and o.c. foam on the exterior studwall, with a slab-on-grade foundation:



He used a rainscreened siding approach, with Certainteed MemBrain vapor retarder under the drywall for better moisture control.  With the rainscreen in his US climate zone 5B location he could have skipped the vapor retarder entirely, but using air tight rigid foam instead of rock wool in the middle layer would be also sufficient vapor diffusion control in all US lower 48 locations.  But putting a variable perm

I most US locations you don't need and don't want a true vapor barrier in the stackup.  Improper placement of vapor barriers has created more problems than they have solved since widespread use began in the 1960s & 1970s.  When moisture is managed by the insulation, cladding ventilation and wall stackup rather than vapor barriers the resulting assembly is far more moisture resilient.

What climate zone are you building in?
billnaegeliUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:166

--
12 May 2016 01:46 PM
wow all those hoops you are jumping through, i think you might want to consider ICF for your exterior walls, it will actually come out less expensive
GNP Inc
ICF Construction & Concrete Services
1-800-713-7663
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.1
Membership Membership: Latest New User Latest: croccohvacusa New Today New Today: 0 New Yesterday New Yesterday: 0 User Count Overall: 35027
People Online People Online: Visitors Visitors: 198 Members Members: 0 Total Total: 198
Copyright 2011 by BuildCentral, Inc.   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement