Has anyone built with this system? It eliminates most of the thermal bridging and allows for deeper insulation in the wall cavities. My question is how much does this wall system cost?

My dad built their house in a similar fashion in '97 and '98. On a Lite-Form foundation. His inner wall was 2x4 horizontal and flat. Very energy efficient. He said not inexpensive and if he were to do it again it would be ICF.

lbear,

They cost slightly less than a standard double stud wall. The only saving is in the elimination of sheating. There is an addition of metal cross strapping for shear. You also have more detail work to do. You also have to fire block the walls. Few code officials will be familiar. You are trading additional labor for small material costs savings. What are you trying to accomplish?

Brian

Posted By zehboss on 25 Mar 2012 09:15 PM
lbear,

They cost slightly less than a standard double stud wall. The only saving is in the elimination of sheating. There is an addition of metal cross strapping for shear. You also have more detail work to do. You also have to fire block the walls. Few code officials will be familiar. You are trading additional labor for small material costs savings. What are you trying to accomplish?

Brian

I was just curious. I am not going to utilize it for my home as I have concluded that ICF would be the best for my design/location.

Lbear,

What made you decide on ICF? When I have priced ICFs they were never the most economical alternative except when I DIYed them. If I was to use ICFs again I would use them to form bond beams with Geofoam
layers between them.

Brian

Posted By zehboss on 26 Mar 2012 04:08 AM
Lbear,

What made you decide on ICF? When I have priced ICFs they were never the most economical alternative except when I DIYed them. If I was to use ICFs again I would use them to form bond beams with Geofoam
layers between them.

Brian

For the area I am building in, ICF was the best choice. The area is high desert and subterranean termites are a problem. The area is also a high risk fire area due to the desert and juniper trees. The area also has "pack rats" and plenty of field mice which are notorious for gnawing their way through wood and making entry into wood homes. Lastly, the area can see some high winds (90MPH- Exposure A,B,C) and a wood home would get racked in such winds. Over the years the home would get twisted and racked and experience nail popping and gaps would begin to form in the framing. Inviting more creepy crawlers (scorpions, centipedes, termites) and rodents into the walls of the home. All the wood homes in that area get rodents and scorpions within their walls, it's not "if" but when. These critters will then find their way into the interior and there is nothing like having a scorpion or rodent problem in your home. It can become a nightmare.

As you can see, the reasons listed were not merely energy related. If I wanted super insulating, best bang for buck, energy design, I would go with a 10" + staggered wood framed wall, cellulose insulation, and 2" of EPS foam on the exterior. While ICF sees a true R-23 in its walls, excellent air tightness, and in my climate the thermal mass will play a larger role due to the diurnal 30-40 degree temperature swings. The main reasons I chose ICF was the inherent strength of concrete. 

Lbear,

I have seen ICFs that have had their Styrofoam removed by varmints. A persistent wood pecker put holes in the surface and then made a home. Rats followed expanding the foam removal. Stucco is not varmint proof. Styrofoam is not either. There are several alternatives that are equally sought and more bug and rodent resistant at a lower cost. If diurnal averaging is your biggest interest internal thermal mass is far more advantageous than contained mass as in an ICF system.

Dry stack block in and out with surface bond cement and a 12 inch Geofoam block between the walls will cost about the same but have twice the thermal performance and be more varmint proof. It is easy to do, can be done by a DIYer. Metal surfaced gabions are much less expensive equally tough, higher performance and more varmint proof as in the H.I.D.E.N Systems approach.

Brian

Posted By zehboss on 27 Mar 2012 12:07 AM
Lbear,

I have seen ICFs that have had their Styrofoam removed by varmints. A persistent wood pecker put holes in the surface and then made a home. Rats followed expanding the foam removal. Stucco is not varmint proof. Styrofoam is not either. There are several alternatives that are equally sought and more bug and rodent resistant at a lower cost. If diurnal averaging is your biggest interest internal thermal mass is far more advantageous than contained mass as in an ICF system.

Dry stack block in and out with surface bond cement and a 12 inch Geofoam block between the walls will cost about the same but have twice the thermal performance and be more varmint proof. It is easy to do, can be done by a DIYer. Metal surfaced gabions are much less expensive equally tough, higher performance and more varmint proof as in the H.I.D.E.N Systems approach.

Brian

While Styrofoam/EPS can be removed by rodents, it does not effect the structural integrity of the home nor would it provide entry into the home as you have 6" of steel reinforced concrete, while it would reduce the insulating values in that area. This scenario would most likely never occur as one installs a metal weep screed at the base of the stucco to foundation transition.

The dry stack block is beyond my DIY skills and the free time that I have available. I would never attempt to build my own home, even if I had the time. I can finish the interior with paint and small trim work but that is as far as I would go. I will leave the home building to the trained professionals. It's just not for me.

Lbear,

Do not get me wrong. My only beef with ICFs is cost for performance. If you are having the home built you still have those better alternatives. Believe me that a local laborer or contractor can do drystack faster and cheaper. I travel the world building homes and still beat the local cost of building all the time.

Brian