Frost Free Shallow Foundation
Last Post 15 Sep 2016 12:18 AM by sailawayrb. 10 Replies.
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agagent3User is Offline
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07 Sep 2016 01:09 PM
What would be the quickest and easiest method of laying out, forming and pouring a "frost free shallow foundation"? Climate zone 5, 30' by 36' home.
Bob IUser is Offline
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07 Sep 2016 01:14 PM
It's doable, but not necessarily quick & easy. Search for more info here: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com
Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant
greentreeUser is Offline
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07 Sep 2016 09:29 PM
Are you going to put up some boards over the grass and dump concrete into it? That would be quick and easy.

Or you could strip, haul in base, compact in lifts, form it, rebar the grade beam, do your undergrounds, probably should square it, maybe toss a level on it. I think you can get a phone app level, calculate your foam board requirements from the code book, pour it so call redi mix and tell them you want concrete, make sure you spec #bags and any admixtures, then they come and you tell them where you want to dump it, maybe add a little water on the truck if its stiff, pour it, rake it, screed it to the pins, float it, finish it...easy day, but dont overwork it. Do you have radiant? Dont forget the zip strips. No radiant you can chase a harbor freight angle grinder to the right depth and spacing, you could cut it with radiant but you need some brass.

Strip the forms and bam...done. Quick and easy like everything about constructing structures. Except you forgot tie downs and anchor bolts, now you have to epoxy and you lost some of your savings, bummer.

Slight sarcasm above, but the sequence is accurate.
greentreeUser is Offline
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07 Sep 2016 09:29 PM
Are you going to put up some boards over the grass and dump concrete into it? That would be quick and easy.

Or you could strip, haul in base, compact in lifts, form it, rebar the grade beam, do your undergrounds, probably should square it, maybe toss a level on it. I think you can get a phone app level, calculate your foam board requirements from the code book, pour it so call redi mix and tell them you want concrete, make sure you spec #bags and any admixtures, then they come and you tell them where you want to dump it, maybe add a little water on the truck if its stiff, pour it, rake it, screed it to the pins, float it, finish it...easy day, but dont overwork it. Do you have radiant? Dont forget the zip strips. No radiant you can chase a harbor freight angle grinder to the right depth and spacing, you could cut it with radiant but you need some brass.

Strip the forms and bam...done. Quick and easy like everything about constructing structures. Except you forgot tie downs and anchor bolts, now you have to epoxy and you lost some of your savings, bummer.

Slight sarcasm above, but the sequence is accurate.
3cityblueUser is Offline
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09 Sep 2016 10:02 AM
Hire a professional with experience.
agagent3User is Offline
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09 Sep 2016 03:05 PM
I have all the spec for constructing a FFSF and have experience with pouring concrete. I was looking for any tips or insights. By the way, my friend had a well know concrete company do a foundation. The had a long conversation with the company and gave them detailed architectural plans. Either they didn't read them or didn't understand them because the walls were not correct. My friend did get them to fix it the best they could but he incurred additional engineering fees in order to build around their screw up. And he was lucky enough to catch them before they poured the basement floor because they were not going to follow the engineered spec for that either!
jonrUser is Offline
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09 Sep 2016 05:54 PM
A monolithic slab or floating? Heated or unheated building FPSF design?
agagent3User is Offline
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13 Sep 2016 01:27 PM
Home with in floor heat. Poured footing 24" below grade with 2 rows of 16" ICFs on top. Slab is poured later with 4" high density EPS foam underneath. We plan on using screed bars on the 30' by 36' slab to aid with achieving a level surface.
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13 Sep 2016 03:46 PM
You will have to check your local specs for the size and thickness of the foam wings. An example (requiring XPS). If your slab is floating, then there may be some differential movement between the walls and the floor.
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13 Sep 2016 03:51 PM
Type-II EPS (1.5lbs per cubic foot nominal density) is fine under a residential slab- it doesn't need to be particularly high density. Be sure to run the foam over the top of the footing right up to the ICF wall foam to break the thermal bridging to the footing.

If the PEX is going to be stapled to the foam it may be worth using Type IX EPS (2lbs density) or XPS (any density Type-II is fine) for the top inch for better staple retention, but it need not be the whole 4". Reclaimed roofing EPS costs only about 1/4-1/3 that of virgin stock, and is almost always Type II, sometimes denser, and would be a less expensive way to go for the wing insulation as well as the slab. In the quantities you're looking at Nationwide Foam would deliver to almost any US location.


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15 Sep 2016 12:18 AM
If you are going to place the PEX on top of the EPS insulation, you may want to consider Nudura HydroFoam EPS panels. You can get it in 2.5" (R10) or 4" (R16) thickness. The panels are 4' square and interlock. The panel has roundish knobs that will retain the PEX and you can easily walk the PEX in saving much time. You should still staple the bends and the straights. Hercules rebar chairs fit nicely over these knobs which are spaced 6" apart allowing you to space the rebar at 12" or 18".

Nudura HydroFoam
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
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