Hello

I would like to know what systems builders are using for (suspended) flooring.  I have a strong interest in a concrete constructed floor system but there doesn' seem to be much talk about it.  Can any one explain the costs and the benefits of each system.  Are most builders just using TJI or 2x12 type building construction when it comes to flooring?  Seems to me there must be a better cost efictive option out there.  I have read about the steel flooring systems but the cost seems to be on the high end.  I have also seen builders use hollow core planks for flooring which is a very quick system, one day with a crane and they are done.  Does quick equal cost afective?  With a recent trip to Chicago you can see all over that they are building using concrete flooring for everything.  Just park your car in a structure and you can see that the flooring is only about 6" thick?

Thanks
Tom

I used concrete and steel (Hambro).  It wasn't cheaper but was the best way to meet all of our asthetic and functional goals and achieve ~24' unsupported spans.  Had we built a "regular" house, a wood floor structure would have been much cheaper and easier (probably faster too).
Keep in mind that a steel/concrete floor structure is also going to be more labor and materials in finishing because you can't just screw drywall to right to it.  Likewise plumbing.

Am in the process of using SpeedFloor for a suspended concrete floor. It will include radiant heat in the concrete. The customer will stain the finished concrete. If you use radiant heat concrete is best ans SpeedFloor is very competitively priced. It also makes the concrete floor comfortable to the touch.

It's interesting that you asked, Does quick equal cost affective?

Our first speed floor job was ready to pour in 6 hours of set up labor, 4 men, plus about 4 hours to pour the following day. it was a simple 1,300 sqft ranch with a bay.
Hollow plank would equal the same day plus another to pour a 2" cap.

A wood floor will require a day in most homes to build. and another to prep. for floor coverings.

The real advantages in concrete are lower energy cost, greater comfort due to warm floors, dosent support mold growth, long term structural strenght " man you can park cars on it) and fire and storm protection.
use concrete for your roof and you can live in a safe house.

But I'm afraid concrete floors and roofs will have to wait there turn for plubic acceptance. Just as Icf has.
But those who can see beyond the public's eyes ,they can take full atvantage of concrete.
Eldon Howe

Thank you for your response.  I did notice that you didn't mention the (time) labor to remove the plywood after the concrete cured.  Is that an insignifacant amount of time?  Or did you install using polystyrene and left it in place?  How was drywall attatchment to ceiling of floor below?

I think the type of heating system would be a factor in determining which way to go also.  In floor heating would work great with concrete but not so great with a wood floor system?  Can 3/4" hardwood floors be installed on concrete?

TC

In that 1,300 sqft house it took maybe another 4 hours to remove the 1/2" osb and prep. it for use on the roof.
On a recient large project striping and clean up of pours of the 5,000 to 9,000 square ft. required about 1- to 2 days for 4-5 men, to strip ,stack and prep. for the next pour.
Drywall is generally attached to wood or metal perlings running 90 degrees to the speed floor joist.
You could also use a suspended drywall grid. allowing space for large ductwork or acoustical tile.

You can install 3/4" wood floor, thick carpet etc.. We sell alot of radiant floor kits for both wood and concrete floors and a combination of both.
Eldon Howe

I'm a structural engineer and own C-Floor Systems Inc. ([email protected]). It, too, is a composite-action joist design. It uses light-gaged cold formed channels. It marries with ICF incredibly well. I installed ±2400 sq ft of residential floor with my pre-assembled (ie including steel deck) with two men in 45 minutes! it was ready for pour within the next hour (after locating the sleeves were completed).

I've studied and scrutinized all of these floor systems (cast-in-place concrete, Hambro, hollow-core, wood joists) and have made many comparisons that may be interesting. All systems are fine - with good and bad features.

If you'd like some pictures of C-Floors at work - email me; or, call me 514-334-1234.

Just one note I would like to add to this discusion. I am an owner/builder in the process of building a single story ICF home with a half basement here in northern Florida. For the floor system I went with the Deitrich system and am pretty happy with how it went together. It is the Trade Ready system with 2 inches of fiber reinforced concrete over a vulpan tray. My only concern so far is the foot traffic noise.  I am going with a scored and stained first floor so I will not have pads and carpeting to absorb/deaden any noise or footsteps. At this point I can definately tell when I am walking over the basement. Much more so than if I were walking on engineered wood truss and osb/plywood sheath floor. I am hoping that by applying some sort of sound absorbing material to the underside of the floor I can minimize it. Any suggestions?

Perhaps having Icynene sprayed onto the bottom of the pan area would deaden the noise?

They make a rubber damper(washer) for steel floor systems ( Hambro,Speedfloor, Metwood and Dietrich) that increases the STC rating tremendously, check with your supplier for details.

Dave

I wish I had known about the rubber spacers earlier but it's too late now. Probably go with spray foam or just pack some insulation up there and put in a drop ceiling.

Thanks all!

It's not to late, the washer goes between the drywall and the joist.

Dave

Thanks a ton! I will do that.

Bret

I was thinking of laying old carpet over the 1/2" plywood and free of any necessary penetrations from the steel joist, shag side up, for sound abatement.

I don't see a huge problem with this idea if you are successful at holding the carpet in place. If you are using any covering over the plywood it must not interfere with the composite connection of the joist at all, Period... Also you would need to allow additional height for the carpet thickness. However old carpets are full of all kinds of contaminates. Eldon Howe

I appreciate all the responses, how ever I haven't heard what builders are using as far as flooring.  So what is it, Wood Concrete or Steel sonstruction?

Speed floor is a composite concrete floor system, using steel joist 4' on center. It requires no shoring. Use any floor covering what so ever.

one thing to consider if you go with concrete floors or even tile floors for that matter. hard surfaces are hard on the feet. there is nothing worse than walking on concrete all day at a job. why do it at home.

I was hoping to use the AmDeck system on the roof as well as 1st floor. The bracing under a hip roof needs special engineering and truss/beam support. This could likely be very expensive so I am looking at a SIPS roof with 4'x4' molded Concrete roof tiles fastened somehow with concerns for freeze/thaw cracking or leakage. I am hoping the SIPS experts can come up with a ICF wall/concrete connector to the SIP and be able to withstand the strongest of hurricanes or tornadoes. I ideally want concrete roof to connect to ICF wall for total monolithic structure. Any thoughts?

SplatGirl!

First off, your blog over on Modern Living is *wonderful,* I don't know how you found the time to post considering all of the butt-busting you guys did. But I was wondering, regarding your exposed-joist ceiling: is it loud when someone walks across the deck above? I'm trying to design a three story ICF structure within the constraints imposed by draconian new maximum height restrictions and having exposed joists may help make my interiors feel more open, but I also have three young rompin' stompin' kids to consider as well :)

yours/
peter.