Can I use an ICF form to put in my foundation? If I do, is there a problem with the foam being below grade? If there is, how is the form used and how do you keep moisture from accumulating against the foundation? PolySteel says their foam is termite resistant and can be in contact with the dirt. If I use PolySteel, how do I control moisture against the foundation? I know this forum has several references to some new technologies but does anyone have any experience with them? Can anyone recommend one of these products from experience? My ICF house with a walkout basement is on a slope and I need to be sure ground water can drain around the foundation without accumulation. I will try to correctly grade the surface, but what else should I be careful to do? Thanks in advance for your ideas. Jay Casey

You handle the walk out basement built with ICF's much like you would do a poured concrete basement. Use a french drain around your footers. Use a waterproof membrane on the walls and apply a drain screen like Delta Drain over that to assure you have no water problems in the future. there are some pictures on my web site under the http://www.advbuildingtech.com/ProjectPhotos.htm that show the process in progress.

"Can I use an ICF form to put in my foundation?"

Jay
As you ask that question, and then use Polysteel in the same paragraph I sense something wrong here. Polysteel has a good product BUT it appears you're not getting the complete picture? Are you talking to some independent sales rep or some company that happens to have some product available?? I cannot for the life of me understand how you would have those questions from such a reputable company, unless it's an outside source not very knowledgable or perhaps the discussion wasn't long enough to get the answers??

I don't know where you are located, which helps. I suggest you consider hiring a consultant to help you, or check thru the threads for info on books, like VanDerWerfs Building with Insulating Concrete Forms for Residential Construction to get more meat on the subject.

Reading thru other websites will also give you a lot more info!!

Jim: I will be building in South Central Tennessee and although I have contacted the PolySteel rep in North Alabama, I have not yet met with him. My information only comes from my research on the Internet. I am currently located outside the USA and won't be able to meet with the PolySteel guy until June. I would like to be prepared for his sales pitch by knowing what you professionals think of some of the products he will be introducing me to.

My confusion stems from the claim that the PolySteel form is termite resistant. Does this mean that it can be in contact with the dirt? If so, how does one waterproof the foundation? The PolySteel website references Form-A-Drain and BlueSeal. I have seen coatings applied to CMU walls and assume the same can be done for ICF but applying the coating to foam just doesn't seen right. And Form-A-Drain attempts to keep it dry against the foundation, but the picture shown isn't a foundation made with stay-in-place foam. So how do these new products perform with an ICF foundation? Has anyone used them in conjunction with an ICF foundation?

Jay Casey

Jay
That info helps a lot! As you're in the beginning stages you do need to do some homework. It will help you a lot. The book I reference above...Insulating Concrete Forms for residential design and construction by VanderWerf (Amazon, forms.org bookstore) would be a great place for you to get a lot of the basics. This will not only explain many things but will help you concentrate on the questions and answers that come up as you prepare to start your new home, immaterial of which brand you use. It covers a lot of info and is well worth it!

The termite issue, as based under the SBC, if that is still the current code, basically required no foam underground. Then, they changed somewhat to allow "protected" foam products, which also developed into borate foams and stainless steel termite meshes and other products, some good, some snake oil. I do not know the exact code conditions for your area, nor would I investigate it unless I was designing for a client. This will be your homework along with your designer/archy to develop a compliant design for where you live.

In general terms, yes, we use ICfs below grade. Yes, we typically waterproof(not damproofing) walls from grade down to top of footing, and we install drainage systems. We do this all over the country, including the southern area. It's simply a matter of using and building with the correct details. You can use a peel and stick membrane to waterproof and protect the foam, which can be in direct contact with the dirt......pending which code you build under....important issue! You can also have the foundation sprayed with a water-based waterproofing membrane. Sometimes the membrane is protected by a thin drainage type fiber board, which also helps water to move easier to the bottom, sometimes no fiber board. Check with the available products and the warranty they provide, and plan on complying in order to actually have a waaranty.

I've used the Form-a-drain system and like it. I've also used FastFoot even more and install a typical 4" pvc drain and achieve the same basic result. However, BOTH systems still require a waterproofing barrier, at least where I build!

My architect isn't that familiar with ICF, so he isn't that greeat a help. I will keep doing the research as you suggested.

So what I've learned is that it is okay to attach the waterproof membrane directly to the foam which can be used below grade. In addition I need to have some sort of foundation drain. The Form-A-Drain looks to be more effective than just the perforated PVC pipe, so I will give that another look. I saw Fastfoot mentioned elsewhere, so I will look at that, too.

I will check all of the above against the building code (when I discover what it is) and this will be one more thing I can check off of my To Do list. I'll also look into the book you mentioned.

Thanks for al the help!

Jay

"My architect isn't that familiar with ICF, so he isn't that greeat a help"....

What happens a lot is many design pros have not branched out into new or different technologies BECAUSE clients haven't asked them to. Each time someone new to ICFs delves into the details and information about it, it's that much less of the general stuff they have to repeat review, so their new clients get to feel a little better in the begining! J

ust think, you gave him a chance to branch out into another field of expertise!! Now, if he's only doing enough to get by, well.......