southerguy
New Member
Posts:5
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| 06 Apr 2007 11:53 AM |
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Right now we are considering using ICF in building our house but are not sure that we will be able to afford it. My question is this, we have our plans that we have designed on our home computer but we need to take and have drafted up by a home designer. Do I need to know the specific block we are using before we have the plans designed? We have talked with one ICF company and they said about $15/sf. At this rate we couldn't afford to build our house with ICF and therefore might have to go back to stick built and well insulated house. If we have to revert to stick built then I don't want the walls drafted at 11" and have to go back to the home designer (not architect). My wife feels that we shouldn't have the plans drafted until we are sure which way we will be going. We will be building in the Mobile, AL area and will be working as the general contractors. Thoughts?
Sam |
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PanelCrafters
Advanced Member
Posts:680
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| 06 Apr 2007 01:11 PM |
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Posted By southerguy on 04/06/2007 11:53 AM
We have talked with one ICF company and they said about $15/sf. At this rate we couldn't afford to build our house with ICF and therefore might have to go back to stick built and well insulated house Check some of the other topics, $10 might be closer in your area. I'm sure that someone will respond. If ICF's prove too expensive take a look at SIPS. They, like ICF's, are superior to stick construction. If you do end up using sticks, you could still Super Insulate by using 2 walls, or come close(to Super Insulating) by using spray foam. Good Luck! |
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| ....jc<br>If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building? |
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fjohnson
New Member
Posts:30
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| 06 Apr 2007 04:02 PM |
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you'll need to know your block.. how thick the concrete is and how thick the styrfoam is. The concrete is structural and the stryfoam isn't.. a good thing to be aware of when you're doing your truss/rafter layout. For more detailed wiring and trim planning you'll need to know the layout of the nailers, both on the walls and the corners and how to deal with the blocks that don't have the nailers where you need them. If it's 2 story, you have to plan for the floor trusses and also if you go with 8" concrete on the lower level and 6" concrete on the upper you'll have to figure that into your design. Your home design program should have the option to change the thickness of your walls on your plan.. maybe this would help. We used a home design program to design our home, took details of the block with us to the rafter/truss company along with the print. encountered no problems. When we took our plans to the draftsman (on my wife's insistance) he wondered why we wanted to pay him to transfer the drawings over to a different piece of paper.. There was a local print company I used to print the blue prints. |
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PatrickT
Basic Member
Posts:157
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| 06 Apr 2007 08:24 PM |
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SoutherGuy,
PanelCrafter and fjohnson have it right. First, the $15/sq-ft does appear high for ICF. Maybe they were talking earth work and footers too. Second, if you can work with your block dimentions on your house design, you can save cutting waist. Keep in mind the alternating corner conponents, long/short.
Patrick T |
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southerguy
New Member
Posts:5
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| 07 Apr 2007 12:06 AM |
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Patrick,
I can see what you are saying but most of the home designers have limited experience with the ICF blocks and I don't believe they will take the sizing into consideration. Now there are a couple of designers in the area that work extensively with a specific block distributor and I believe they might take your concerns into consideration. Otherwise, it might be when I decide on the block and installer they modify the plans accordingly. Don't know.
Sam |
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southerguy
New Member
Posts:5
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| 07 Apr 2007 12:11 AM |
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Yeah, I was really expecting between $9-10 per sf. I think I will end up getting preliminary plans and working on the estimates with the various installers then find out what I get. If the price doesn't come in that area then I will look at my alternatives. Something else interesting, today we called around to about 3-4 cement companies in the area for cost of 3000psi concrete and got prices ranges from $68-83. What a difference.
Sam |
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James Eggert
Basic Member
Posts:411
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| 08 Apr 2007 01:04 PM |
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Sam
You said Mobile, so you might as well stop now.
The first thing you need to do it to discuss the requirements necessary to build in your area, which I believe entails specific high wind practices.
The issue isn't wood frame versus CMU versus ICFs versus SIPs; it is what does the local AHJ require.
That is not to say you cannot build with ICFs, which I know will be able to pass any requirements, probably the IRC code, but I do not know which code you are under!!
Start asking now, then at least you will be ready to decide "which" professional designer or archie you need to use. If you're even anywhere near the water, there will be an expense curve that you need to be aware of! |
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| Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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icf-specialist
New Member
Posts:3
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| 10 Apr 2007 04:19 AM |
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Sam, ...
I am a concrete sub-contractor living in Mobile, Alabama and a certified installer for two brands of ICF. I too will soon be building my own ICF home and have retained a husband/wife arhitectural team with experience in ICF design. As far as I can ascertain from the Mobile County Engineering Department, the current requirements south of Interstate 10 is complying with the INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE. I believe the wind-load design to be 130 mph, ... which 6" ICF walls with proper steel reinforcement will meet specifications. I will be more than happy to introduce you to these "eager" architects, as I have been impressed wth their vision and appreciation for ICF. By the way, ... you can pay me $15/sf for installing the ICF walls, ... but I think I can do better than that price.
Romie P. |
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Forever
New Member
Posts:3
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| 14 Apr 2007 01:37 AM |
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From my little bit of talking with ICF contractors down here (Eastern shore), $15 a sqft is a little high, but that does depend on what all they are including in that. Make sure you are comapring apples to apples. Also check on the type of ICF too.
Any LA people wanna share notes? :)
Chris |
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icf-specialist
New Member
Posts:3
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| 14 Apr 2007 03:36 AM |
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Chris, ...
the estimated price (or perhaps "over the phone") Sam received from one ICF company at $15/sf, ... does sound a little high for the Mobile/Baldwin County area. That is if one is quoting basic iCF design. We justify additional charges for two-story applications, excessive number of window openings, arched windows/doorways, porch columns, poor jobsite logistics, etc. Not knowing or viewing Sam's design, it will be fruitless for me to say what I think Sam should pay. Although concrete pricing has decreased in the last year from $90/cy to around $78/cy, ... we are now faced with a significant increase in the price of REBAR. My supplier confirmed what the ASSOICATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS newsletter printed, ... "the price of rebar will increase by as much as 60% in the second quarter of 2007". I went ahead and purchased the steel reinforcement for my ICF home that I am starting in June, and saved about $800. May not sound like much, but it all adds up. With the rising costs of gasoline nationwide, one may expect increases of ICF shipping costs. I do know this, ... in our market area, it is difficult to achieve decent profit margins at $9.00 to $10.00 per square foot.
Romie P.
Mobile, Alabama |
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Forever
New Member
Posts:3
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| 14 Apr 2007 12:29 PM |
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icf-specialist:
Sounds like I might need to go buy the steel for my walls... even if it just sits there a few months. Oh I am about saving where I can and where it is worth it.
by the way, I sent you a message on here. Hope you get it. |
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southerguy
New Member
Posts:5
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| 14 Apr 2007 02:06 PM |
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Jim,
I am in a high wind area and they do have specific codes that are required for my area. In this area when you have your plans drawn up you also need to get an engineers stamp on anything that you are planning to build if you have a larger home(over 2500sf?) or pitch is over 7/12. From what I hear, they can get particularly finicky when it comes to building to the local codes. Ah well, the price of building. I have interviews set up with about 3 designers next week that I'm talking with. The real question I had was when I select a designer, and I am still not sure about which ICF form I will use, I can't really tell the designer the specs for the form. I guess I will have the designer lay out the walls for 11", since it seems like most of the major ICF forms come to that size. As far as which form I use, that will depends on the installers I talk with and their preference and who we select. As long as it is reputable firm and provide support to the installer, I have no real preference. A lot of the designers that I have talked with just have a basic knowledge of ICFs and do not have a lot of practical experience. Architects are out of the question for my budget. The $15 quote was off the top of the person's head and not even based on the drawings. I did call back to find out if they included anything else in this quote, like footers etc. But nope, just the walls. Well, in all likelihood they will not come into the picture later. I still hold out hope for building with ICFs, but it will depend on the costing of the overall house.
Sam |
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southerguy
New Member
Posts:5
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| 14 Apr 2007 02:10 PM |
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Romie,
Good to hear from someone local. My wife and I will certainly be giving you a call and talking with you. Yeah the $15 /sf was out of sight and a lot higher than the going rate. Part of the problem is that this group that provided this does mostly upper end homes in real expensive areas.
Sam |
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James Eggert
Basic Member
Posts:411
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| 15 Apr 2007 12:27 PM |
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I am sure the "going" rate varies around the country, and in general the wall rate is pretty much anywhere from $9-$20, so depending on labor rates AND production rates, the in-place completed product will vary, from town to town, and from state to state. That is not rocket science, but when the products typically cost xyz, the labor rates obviously drive the bottom line. As you compare pricing, compare floor by floor including all aspects of each type of construction before you decide ICF is "too expensive" or "out of my budget"!
Look at everything long-term! Something as simple as putting off the granite counters for a couple years so you can install something that starts providing a return immediately now is worth considering when you plan your home!
As for your designer selection, all the Simpson hangars you need for ICFs are in a brochure from www.wind-lock.com including all the pretty pictures to clarify their use and placement. Use the charts for the allowable stress requirements, and you should be on your way!! A little to far for me to play down there on the Gulf :-) |
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| Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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