how can any reputable electrical contractor install the wiring in an icf project without using conduit? conduit in the concrete is the only UL approved method, and the contractors license is on the line regardless of the inspector passing it or not. the fact of the matter is, only the correct method should be used, and the correct method is to use conduit, usually sch 40 pvc, in the concrete itself. every electrician in the US knows how to run conduit, and quite frankly, cutting into foam is not the right thing to do. the customer deserves to have the electrical installed properly, and is paying us to do just that. besides, it is a violation of the building codes to install any product not UL listed, and when cable is installed into a grove in the foam, that is not UL approved. do it right, the first time!

What is the problem with installing electrical in the foam?  The end result is similar to the typical istallation found in any stick framed home, except the wire is often deeper in the material.  i.e. take 2 1/2 inches of foam and melt through to the concrete, run your wire and fill the groove with foam to hold the wire in place.  The wire is a minimum of 2 inches deep, as deep as stick frame wires.  The conduit may be fine, but who wants to go through the hassle of running the conduit, pouring around the conduit, then pulling wires through the conduit when it is not at all necessary??? 

Once again a comment without proper substantiation, shows up about once a year.

This is not a code issue, else every building department in every city where an ICF home has been built is now liable for any death and injury caused by any electrical inference is what you are suggesting!!!

Kindly show me specifically the code sections in my on the shelf codebooks, specifically

NEC2005
IRC2003
IBC2003

You can't, because your blanket statement is untrue!!! However, i do interpret your approach as being from an electrical background, either as a contractor or as an electrician, but inaccurate statement don't last too long here!

Now using conduit may be easier for down the road changes, especially in low voltage communication changes, but that type of installation is specified when required.

Well spoken Jim. Its apparent that Mac thinks the wiring is in the concrete, and not the foam.

Dave

Mac,

I hate to say it but Jim is right. I can not find any reference in the NEC, IRC, or IBC contradicting the installation of wiring in the foam of an ICF wall. Oh by the way UL (Underwriters Laboratories) FM (Factory Mutual), and a host of other companies only test and certify products such as light fixtures, conduits, switches, and so on to be safe. They may recommend a certain installation procedure for a particular product but the NEC trumps them when it comes to wiring a house or building.

Oh Jim I its not that I hate...

ICF Contractor

Oh, I hate it when....... just kidding!

It is important that all safety aspects of building be transparent, so everyone from the professional contractor to the homeowner's son(or daughter) can build "safely"!

I originally didn't interpret the poster as indicating a romex in concrete situation, but rather not using romex at all. However, I, and I'm sure most every knowlegable person, does agree that romex in concrete is wrong, and it requires conduit of some sort when involved in a wet(concrete pour) installation! There is nothing wrong with a drilled hole thru concrete for the romex placed after curing.

I remember when I did my own home, how the building inspector, told me to not continue refoaming all the grooves to encapasalate the wiring, which I was convinced was in my mind a major insulation void and would wreak havoc with my planned enegy savings!! :-) However, since then different formulations of foam have been manufactured, allowing sprayed on coverage in order to create a good insulation barrier helping to build better!!

to all,

obviously many folks have missed the point i was trying to make. there is NO other matter when building any structure more important than safety and quality. the building codes very clearly indicate the use of only Ul listed products. just because someone has done it a different way in the past and the inspector has signed off on it doesn't make it right. true, the NEC 2005 doesn't yet address the issue. hopefully they will in 2008. i am sure that the people who respond to this care about the quality of the work they do, otherwise the wouldn't bother looking on here. i spoke to several inspectors on this issue, and they are currently researching this. hopefully, they will find the correct answer and this will become an irrelevant issue. i am not against using NMSC (romex) but it is not the correct product in the icf walls. please don't take offense to this. the construction industry should be treated like the respectable industry that it is, and quality should be held to the highest standards possible.

mac

Mac,

Look at IRC E3304.8 and E3304.9. Then explain to me the difference between running wires through non-UL approved wood and running wires through foam. The wire is insulated and UL approved for interior use with out conduit under normal houshold conditions. The things you need to be concerned with is possible damage to the covering of the wire and guarding against accidential contact. all of these can be accomplished in foam.

ICF Contractor