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Walls on stepped footers
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cabinboy
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 21 Jun 2007 10:12 AM |
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Our foundation plan has stepped footers because it is a walkout on one side and because the grade changes from one side of the house to the other. I don't know much about footer tolerances -- can I assume that the footers will be stepped exactly in one foot multiples as called for in the plan? Footers step down one foot, then down another three feet, then up four feet. Is there a technique to insure that a given course of block will line up horizontally all the way around?
This brings up the other obvious question -- can I count on my footers being level enough that I only maybe have to shim the sill plate slightly on top of the wall (we will be putting SIPs above grade)? The concrete footer guy is supposedly very good and knows we will be using ICFs -- what tolerance to do I need on footer levelness (is that a word?). |
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Cattail Bill
 Basic Member
 Posts:206
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| 21 Jun 2007 04:24 PM |
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Your question has several answers, The first one that comes to mind is the height of the icf you will be using, and that will dictate the height of the steps if you want them to come out correctly.
The second would be to adjust the lower levels so that when you reach the height of the step footer that it comes out correct and you can proceed from there at even levels.
In regards to the footing some people can get them very close, however you may still have to do some adjusting, this is done by rasping off material where you have high spots you will probably want to shoot a level on the footing to see where the best place is to start is and if need be do some shiming in any low spots this will reduce the amount of adjustment on the rest of the first course.
Another technique is to lay a 2X4 on the footing up on edge and then screw the forms to that at level, this is commonly refered to as a cleat in this industry.
Under no circumstance should you depend on the adjustment at the sill, always do this step at the first course. Here is why, as you build the wall if it is off at the bottom it will project as you build up so that by the time you get to the top or sill plate in this case you may be several inches off. Not only will your top be out of level but it may also cause the corners to tip outward throwing all the dimensional on your home to the wind. |
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cabinboy
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 21 Jun 2007 07:02 PM |
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Thanks Bill for the reply. Very helpful ideas. Now, can anyone tell me why Integraspec's forms are 12.25" high instead of a foot? I had planned on stepping my footers in one foot multiples assuming that these "12 inch" forms were exactly 12 inches. Never assume anything. They are actually 12.25" when interlocked. Is there a reason for this extra quarter of an inch?
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James Eggert
 Basic Member
 Posts:411
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| 22 Jun 2007 10:04 AM |
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"can I count on my footers being level enough "
No, you can't, but that is part of construction!! You have two elements going on here, the steps in the footing and the final top grade, two different animals.
The final top elevation is a result of the installation of the block, and perhaps block settlement during the pour. Settlement to me is negligable so the issue is how careful is it erected, and who places the control lines!
As to the footers, take the main bulk of the full hgt wall areas and call that zero. It doesn't matter what the steps are below the zero level depending on how you want to install the block. What I mean is its great in the fairytale world to plan on "EXACTLY" incremental steps so you have no cutting. But is it practical? I don't think so, so for example, using Integs 12.25" blocks have the step down be 12" OR LESS so you can keep the zero elevation continuing around the foundation. Make the next step LESS THAN 24 1/2 or 36.75" and you only need to work with the bottom course for adjusting hgt. This is a simple explanation, but what I am saying is do not exceed your increments(for simplicity) and you can always work with full blocks.
We in the field don't care perse' whether its full or half blocks! So don't assume everything just goes together in mathematical increments; plan how to accomodate the increments. Because I doubt the footing will be "perfect", it's relatively easy to cut that 1/4" off the bottom and work your way up to the zero line. Just remember to establish the zero line, not assume the top footing is level!
Note: Actually the increments would be 24.5 or 36.5, dealing only with the bottom 1/4", if you want to plan than closely :-) |
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| Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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eric monkman
 Basic Member
 Posts:262

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| 22 Jun 2007 08:44 PM |
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Footer tolerance 1/4 inch maximum. SUPERFLAT. Use a Lazer Level and 2 or more receivers when beeping your footing pour.
Step elevations equal to the block module 12.25 , 16, 18 inch...as per the unit block. Integra, Logix, Nudura etc etc
Keep it simple. Avoid half-courses, if possible.
Use a Lazer Level to grade the top of your wall pour, for your sill plate.
Take the manufacturer's installer training course.
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cabinboy
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 24 Jun 2007 11:35 AM |
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Thanks everyone for the help. Here's a thought, suggest by my wife. This is a full basement with a partial walkout side. The footers have to step down to approx. 48" below slab level for frost protection (we're over 10000 feet in the mountains). Instead of stepping the footers (currently stepped 1' then 3' because of the grade) and worrying about all of the issues mentioned above, what about pouring a stem wall for the below slab level footers to bring them up to the level of the footers that are at slab level? Then, we just start the ICF's from that point.
My concrete guy has the reputation for the ability to pour footers (and I assume stem walls) to within a 1/4 of an inch (as mentioned by eric above) when dealing with ICF walls, so we might be able to assume a "flat" starting point.
A couple of issues. How do we attach build the ICFs on top of the resulting stemwalls? Do we put attach a cleat to the inside of the wall (this would allow for adjustments in leveling, as suggested by Cattail Bill)? Do we pour the stemwalls thicker than 8", say 12" so that we have a solid surface to rest the ICFs on (50% more concrete)?
And finally, what about the slab -- do we want to attach it to the stemwalls? Normally, it would sit on top of the footers after the ICFs are in place, but now we have these stemwalls coming up from below. Once again, a thicker stemwall would work, but now we're adding even more concrete to the stemwall. |
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YZ1
 New Member
 Posts:6
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| 26 Jun 2007 11:55 PM |
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This all sounds great if you are simply contracting everything. If you end up doing this yourself, an easier solution would be to create your stem walls using ICF forms. ICF forms are centered over footing forms on heavy guage wire or metal rods. In this way, matching up form lines and rows at step points is a visual process and you can deal with it right at the get go. Lower areas may have 1 row of ICF, others 2, and the highest 3 rows, but the top of the forms are leveled all the way around.
Only then, after its all been fitted and leveled do you pour your footers and stemwalls. All in one pour, placing rebar and a keyway in the top course of ICF. Then building on your stemwalls is simply a matter of continueing your wall on up. A good example with pictures can be seen at : http://www.fab-form.com/projects/Fastfoot/Residential/mono-pour_menzel.html
Not the only way, but another way.
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YZ1
 New Member
 Posts:6
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| 27 Jun 2007 12:18 AM |
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correction. The project pictured may not be the best example.
But the point is, build your stem walls in ICF and adjust to level. In setting this first row of ICF's on top of your footing forms and steps. You can cut and carve them to match changes in your footings all the way around the foundation. Then add additional rows of blocks as needed until your ICF's have a level top all the way around.
Then you can carefully remove whatever full blocks down to rows of ICF matching your footing (or whatever you are comfortable with) and pour your footings and stemwalls together. Then you know everything will line up, you will have no cold joint at the footings to leak, and you have your first row of ICF's in place so you can pour the floor.
Not the only way, but another way. |
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James Eggert
 Basic Member
 Posts:411
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| 27 Jun 2007 08:08 PM |
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Personally, I don't see a new user trying to pour the footing and walls at the same time. It doesn't matter what the hgt of the stem walls are, give someone a vibrator, and see the mess!
I think we all agree to pour the all the walls including the stepped portions in ICFs, but I think most people are better working off a poured in-place footing! |
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| Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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