Cheby,  I am planning the same in MN.  I have a south facing lot on lake minnetonka.   Where are you building? perhaps we can compare notes.  I want to do a modern passive solar with flat rooftop deck.

Really? Cool. I'm actually in Rochester. My friend built a home in ICF's and using geothermal but his home is a little different. I'm mainly concerned about cost of course but which system will be better for the large openings. It would be cool to see your plan.

Ha! Wait I think we wrote each other on the livemodern.com forum :D

oh yeah!  you forwarded the sale listing of your friends home.  I may be going to the TMass pouring at jason hammonds home next week.  that should be interesting.  keep in touch.

That should be interesting, wish I was closer! What building system are you going with on your project?

Not sure yet. Starting to talk to architects & design/builders now. Considering stick/foam, icf, sip, shotcrete foam sandwich panels, precast/Tmass type, red iron/metal cladding. I want modern cool for cheap! It's hard to get cost info comparisons on various systems.

Cheby,

In the specific building you are showing I can see many shear issues that will arise from using wood or SIPs alone. I am not saying it can not be done but your corners will have serious work done to them to carry the load and handle the shear forces. In the design you show using concrete alone or a combination of concrete and another building material such as wood and or steel would be my first impression. The basement should be ICF without a doubt.

It sounds to me like you are try to take advantage of the solar gain on the south side of the building. It would probably be to your advantage to get an expert on solar and passive solar homes in your corner early. This will eliminate a whole lot of needless running around chasing your tail.

ICF Contractor

Slezen,

Sorry if this sounds like an admonishment but I think a little reality check is in order. If you are looking to build your house cheap you will end up with a cheap house wrought with problems bottom line.

Now if you are trying to do it economically minded, but understand that you will at some point have to pay your suppliers, contractors, architect, and or engineer, who all deserve to make a living just as you do. Then your potential to end up with a home that is a great quality home for a good price is dramatically increased.

I think one of the bains of our industry are authors who write a book telling you that you can save 30, 40 or 50 percent building your own home. This can be true depending on how much you know about building, how much work you will do yourself, what your skill levels are, and many other factors. Remember the job of an author is to sell books not build your house. Sensational titles sell books. I work with many owner builders, some do well and some don't. It comes down to three basic issues; How much time do they have to dedicate to the project (it is a full time job); What is there education and skill level when it comes to the specific type of construction they are planning (Contractors get paid to do this because it is not as easy as it looks.); What is there financial commitment to do it right(You get what you pay for, if you go the cheap route you get a cheap result).

ICF Contractor

cheap was said tongue in cheek. I understand the complexity of building and total cost of ownership. That is why I am still doing the homework. Measure twice, cut once.

Thanks for the reply ICFContractor. The interesting thing about that home is it comes in a kit form, basically stick built with some steel supports in the open areas. Saying that I've heard from people building them that they are built very well and "over engineered" if this is possible.

Reason I brought this topic up is I've had people on both sides saying that the type of home I want to build wouldn't work well with "x" technique. Some of the problems I always see is, yes you can build it using any technology/technique, but which way is the best and what will be cost effective as well?

Yes passive solar is one part, I think I have that covered though since I have a designer who will design an overhang for the latitude I'm at. Mostly looking for the light and "open" feeling.

So in that example, would you have that one wall in ICF or would you do something different? With the second story (where there will be less windows) could you put concrete ICF about that row of windows?

Thanks for your reply!

No offense, but that's just plain silly. They've been building homes like this since the 50's without SIPS or ICF's.


Sticks. Unless you have a system for compensating for all of those windows(especially in MN) your Heat Loss at night(or when it's cloudy) will defeat any advantage that you'll have with SIPS or ICF's.

JC,

If you read my post I said stick or SIPs ALONE would have issues. Apparently the engineers who worked on the kit AGREE with me because they are sending the kit out with STEEL. And hey, lets get one other thing straight you, are actually building with concrete not the ICF and the fact that you have been building since the 50s doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on the question. The specific issue is a specific building meeting todays code requirements not the 1950s code. I may be silly but I still gave the correct advice all you did was take a cheap shot to make yourself feel better. I hope you do feel better.

ICF Contractor

PS No offense taken

Both of you are in areas that we have ICF builders, get ahold of [email protected] for more info and the oppurtunity to look at a finished ICF with lots of windows.

Sorry that would be [email protected]

If you interpret that statement as a cheap shot, so be it. The point was that the structure could easily be built with Sticks or SIPS. And, since every structure is a combination of materials, utilizing concrete and/or steel is the norm, not the exception.

Many buildings, especially houses, were built in the 50's and 60's with little or no engineering.  Fortunately today most have more sense than to attempt a complex build with ICf's or SIPS or even "stick"without proper engineering.  This holds doubly true in any wind or sizmic zone. 
The country is full of attorney's waiting for you to make a mistake so they can do there thing.  Remember Hurricane Andrew in Florida and more recently Ivan.   
Better to be safe than sorry. 

 

Thanks for the reply panelcrafter.... so you think any of these would be possible waste of time and energy due to the size and number of windows? It will have a second story which might affect it somewhat and the eaves would be about 3 feet with another overhang over the "window wall" to compensate for sunlight in the summer.

I am working on a very similar design for Northern Wyoming though it will not be as modern in looks and only have two floors( no basement)

I am going to balance mass with the solar to get less of a temp swing. We will also have solar hot water for domestic and infloor heating as needed. We will have cement on both floors, a larger slab on the main floor. Our design will have alot of windows on the south side and miniimal on the north. Heat loss should be no more than on a normal house because we should actually have the same amount of windows just not spread evenlly around. The mass of cement walls and floors will store the heat for the evening.
We will put radiant in the floor and maybe walls to more efficiently move the daytime heat.

Right now we live in a SIP home with cement floors. It is 90 outside and 64 inside. No airconditioning.

Absolutely Not! If this is what you want, build it!

My point is that for true efficiency, you'll need a method of insulating those windows at night. My current house, mostly by accident, is a very good passive solar system(90+° inside in the winter). However, all of that heat simply flows out at night through the wall of windows. If I had a way to seal the heat in at night(insulating draperies, blinds etc.), then I would have something! The other downside is having a room that warm during the day, not too comfortable. So, most of my efforts now involve 'active solar' where the heat is stored outside the living area.