Differences in the use of ICF between Europe and USA
Last Post 10 Sep 2007 01:03 PM by Mark Ross. 7 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
lara3887User is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4

--
31 Aug 2007 05:57 PM

I would like to find the criteria used to distribute the iron bars and their thikness inside the ICFs prior to poring the concrete. I know that this idea started in Denmark. I would like to have somebody to contact in the original company in Europe to know what criteria they use. Also how they deal whit that issue: since the concrete is in fact a hard mega screen inside a polystyrene wall, some rodents, insects and other animals might be able to scratch and finaly find their way through the foam part of the wall and enter the building. Is a thin coat of concrete on the exterior enough to protect it through the years???

walltechUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:390

--
31 Aug 2007 06:02 PM
Well first off the core of the concrete is solid on a flat wall there fore eliminating the rodent/bugs from coming into the interior structure. Some of the older ICFs where post and beam but they have largely been eliminated so this is not a concern. As far as a parge coat goes, done properly will eliminate and rodent/bug issues fore-ever.

Dave
woulfccUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:147

--
04 Sep 2007 09:05 AM
I think this is what you are looking for, www.toolbase.org/Technology-Inventory/walls/Insulating-Concrete-Forms
I use this to find my re bar (iron bars) placement in icf walls.
As waltech has said screen block is an older style of forms (they do work well but are harder to work with) and are not used as much nowadays.
Be for the book I think you needed an engineer for re bar placement on you all your walls to be in the code.
I hope this helps.
Changing How the World BUILDS!<br>Green , Done , Easy<br>Woulf c.c. of Wisconsin
FlaICFUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:78

--
04 Sep 2007 01:43 PM
Use the HUD Prescriptive Method for ICFs. The base table will give you a starting point but an engineer stamp is the final answer. GR
walltechUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:390

--
04 Sep 2007 06:36 PM
Actually, rebar placement differs in the USA than lets say the UK. Their the brits address lentil issues only above grade and use little to no rebar in horizontal and vertical applications. Seems illogical though, since humans have evolved and you would think engineering practices to be practical every where in the us. Personally I believe US engineering practices to be over bearing due to our " sue over a hot cup of coffee polices in our country", except maybe those who are in seismic areas.

Dave
DaveFUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:52

--
07 Sep 2007 03:44 PM
Construction methods do differ between countries but re-bar of a different kind is used in Europe rather than the 'old fashioned kind' in the USA.

European re-bar is an engineered composite in and of itself, but as such cannot be used in the older designs of ICF's comonly utilised in the states because it is a single structure and incerted singly as is common practice here.

However newer designs of concrete forms are about to be relesed in the states that encompass the evolutions that have taken place in the industry over the last 80 years or so specificaly designed for use in the united states.

One should understand that competition between building systems in the states has since the first world war been somewhat scewed by the decitions made at that time with a country facing a major housing crisis deciding the lessen its regulations with regard to wooden structures. A desition that sent the whole housing market down the path of 'stick build' and one that no one seems to have thought to chalange given that there was little to no competition in the building market given the fact that demand far outstriped production.

However a 'new age' dawns with a tightening market and 'aware' consumers such that inovation in a secure and stable environmetaly friendly methodology of construction has now become the deciding factor in the home owners mind such that they are willing and eager to pay just that little bit extra in order to buy a real house and not an over sized garden shed.

Times change, but human behaviour is constant, those who keep up with flurish and those who stagnate will die.

Bye the bye, I've been a lurker here for some time and find topics like the one on another thread "art and graveling" to be hilariouse, but not very usefull to the poor guy who asks a question about a leaning wall. No one talks about the consequences of a leaning wall, the trapizoidal effects or the likelyhood that the poor guys furniture won't meet the walls, just a bunch of bickering about how it happend in the first place, and no I don't blame all for the bickering ,after all one can't stand by and let a person chest beat his way to his next contract. But don't get destracted guys, talk to the origional poster and give him the advice that he needs to move forward.

Have a great day,

DaveF
lara3887User is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4

--
10 Sep 2007 12:58 AM
My initial question was about differences in the USA and Europe in the use of the product, regarding that it was invented in Denmark. I was interested in knowing the European criteria in the distribution of the iron bars (the criteria of the guy working for me didn't convince me, like if he didn't know how cement and iron work together). Some websites have been useful. Thanks.
But I didn't expect the last comment...!!!
1.- I didn't speak about any new age...
2.- Nothing to do with my question.
3.- I don't know this guys and didn't say anything about them.
4.- I am not English native, but I didn't use spell check...
5.- I don't know what you are talking about.

I don't know who is attacking who, but I suggest that the comments are according to the initial question, and that each person answers to the person who is involved and no to anybody else. Anyway, I am not interested in any discussion and I am not longer going to spend my time here since my walls are already made (with mistakes in squares, levels, plumb, etc, but OK, we cannot change it now). Thanks and good luck! Patricia

PS: Europe is not one country, but many. This invention was made in Denmark, but has been used in many European countries
Mark RossUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:73

--
10 Sep 2007 01:03 PM
We have gone through the whole european codes and US codes issues and criteria, interestingly, the european codes continually and repeatadly refer to american ACI and the International Building Code (also American). Within all of this is another, obscure part of the code, which is the International Residential Code, which is a governing code within the scope and directed by the International Building Code. Now to subset the entire process are the ICC evaluations for many forms, which are again addressed in teh International Residential Code. In short, any forms with ICC approvals, meet european residential construction code standards (which also includes the Middle East, most of Africa and eastern asian countries as well as most UK, France and german established colonies).

As for reinforcing steel, metric or standard, in europe, you can easily purchase both, they are just nomenclatured differently. EG 12.5 mm bar is teh equvilant of 1/2" reinforcing steel, and readily available throughout europe. A progressive engineer in any country usting the International Building Code as a referenced standard of construction should easily adapt to the North American Standards.
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.1
Membership Membership: Latest New User Latest: croccohvacusa New Today New Today: 0 New Yesterday New Yesterday: 0 User Count Overall: 35027
People Online People Online: Visitors Visitors: 156 Members Members: 0 Total Total: 156
Copyright 2011 by BuildCentral, Inc.   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement