dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 01 Oct 2007 08:31 PM |
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This is quoted from the vertical panel thread. I figured it would better to have its own new thread! This sure looks like what DaveF has been writing about!
Posted By jmagill on 10/01/2007 7:54 PM Dave F Is this the product you are talking about? LINK [/quote] It'll be interesting to see what the thermal performance of that system will be. No concrete so no thermal mass to retard/hold/release heat. Steel is much more of a heat conductor than is wood. One of the issues with wood framing is that the studs, headers, etc., constitute about 20% - 25% of the wall surface and provides a lot of thermal bridging. Steel conducts roughly 1200 times as much heat as does wood, so a steel stud .020" thick will conduct as much heat through the wall as does about 25" of wood. The Accel design does have webbed steel in the styro so the cross section of the path is reduced to maybe 10%. That still leaves a thermal path of a size on the order of a stud. One design does have styro over the outside of the steel stud, bringing it closer to ICF design. But, wallboard will fasten directly to the steel inside the house, so you don't have styro between the stud and wall board like ICF. Like I say, it'll be interesting to see its thermal performance. Mac |
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 01 Oct 2007 08:44 PM |
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Interesting side note to this.
The one company involved, NOVA Chemicals, has just bought the Sterling styrene production plant in Texas City, Texas and is going to shut it down. That plant has been producing about 11% of the styrene in the US. Go to NOVA Chemicals website and read their Investor Relations materials. They're doing this to boost styrene prices. Looks like another case of screw Mr. & Mrs. Average American in the interest of boosting Super Corporation shareholder value.
I know this isn't the usual type of comment for this forum, but NOVA's action could signal price increases for ICF forms over the next several months. That is a concern for forum members.
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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DaveF
New Member
Posts:52
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| 01 Oct 2007 10:02 PM |
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Hmm, I seem to remember posting that bead was going to go up some time ago, lucky guess eh, LOL!!! |
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jmagill
Basic Member
Posts:374
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| 02 Oct 2007 09:48 AM |
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I find the idea of this product very interesting.
I have been searching for a product that would give me thermal mass on the inside with no foam to impede the flywheel effect for passive solar storage.
From the look of this product I could have the foam side to the outside and use plywood or some other board on the inside as a form. I could install all my in wall wiring etc. before the concrete is poured, remove the inside form after curing and then finish the wall with paint, plaster or nothing at all.
This would give me a well insulated wall and internal thermal mass. I have looked at T-mass, Durisol etc. and have not found the product that was right for this application. They never had enough external insulation or the ease of use of SIPs. I also had trouble finding contractors in my area of the world.
I am looking forward to more information on the R-value , plant location etc. Pricing of course is also important.
This may be excactly what I was looking for.
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vermaraj
New Member
Posts:34
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| 02 Oct 2007 10:28 AM |
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Dave,
This is a very interesting product. Do you know how the decks are supported? It looks like the deck would rest on the steel channel and then the next story is built. If this system could support balloon framing w/45' panels you could do 3 stories plus eves in one placement. That would be efficient!! |
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vermaraj
New Member
Posts:34
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| 02 Oct 2007 01:41 PM |
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I look forward to hearing more about this product. I have tried a magnesium board product before. It too is an impressive product. Unfortunately the cost, mostly shipping, is prohibitive.
Will this panel system support suspended concrete slabs? I assume so if your target market is the hotel/motel industry. |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 02 Oct 2007 02:56 PM |
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Is this product made to be used as a concrete form? I didn't notice anything on the pdf. This does seem to improve on current foam/steel panels as you don't have to deal with chases etc...w/ the trades. Here is a system using mag board as a form. They have an office in the NW somewhere. It requires an investment of their Fiber Reinforced forms though. LINK |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 02 Oct 2007 03:11 PM |
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Posted By jmagill on 10/02/2007 9:48 AM
I find the idea of this product very interesting.
I have been searching for a product that would give me thermal mass on the inside with no foam to impede the flywheel effect for passive solar storage.
From the look of this product I could have the foam side to the outside and use plywood or some other board on the inside as a form. I could install all my in wall wiring etc. before the concrete is poured, remove the inside form after curing and then finish the wall with paint, plaster or nothing at all.
This would give me a well insulated wall and internal thermal mass. I have looked at T-mass, Durisol etc. and have not found the product that was right for this application. They never had enough external insulation or the ease of use of SIPs. I also had trouble finding contractors in my area of the world.
I am looking forward to more information on the R-value , plant location etc. Pricing of course is also important.
This may be excactly what I was looking for.
Jmagill, have you looked at the shotcrete foam panels like Tridipanel? I am considering them for my passive solar build and keep a smooth concrete finish. electrical is put in behind the wire mesh before shotcreteing.
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jmagill
Basic Member
Posts:374
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| 02 Oct 2007 03:25 PM |
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"Jmagill, have you looked at the shotcrete foam panels like Tridipanel? I am considering them for my passive solar build and keep a smooth concrete finish. electrical is put in behind the wire mesh before shotcreteing."
I have but it was not a system that I felt comfortable with and again my location makes it hard to find a contractor.
This system actually looks almost perfect for my needs. Our goal is a passive solar home with siding surfaces that we can finish at our leisure and will be almost maintenance free. I also like the idea of a substansial concrete wall for quiet and wind and fire properties.
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jperiod
New Member
Posts:21
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| 02 Oct 2007 04:04 PM |
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Anyone know what the differences between this product and the following steel SIPs are? LINK
LINK
LINKThanks JW |
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jmagill
Basic Member
Posts:374
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| 02 Oct 2007 05:11 PM |
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Dave
I have a question for you. I am planning a building( actually 2) 2 stories tall basic rectangle 10 foot ceilings on the first floor and 8 on the second floor.
With this product how would you do the stack and pour.? One floor at a time? or to the rafters?
Jill |
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lkazanov2
Basic Member
Posts:177
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| 02 Oct 2007 05:58 PM |
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Dave,
This is a very interesting product. You are correct in that the steel is likely Dietrich's design. The Spazer and the dimpled studs are Dietrich's. The open stud design elimates any headaches with electrical or fresh water plumbing lines. The webbing in the studs are designed to minimize thermal bridging. However, what is the size of the steel used (20 G, 18G, 16G?)? Don't get me wrong, looks like a neat system but how is it different from a typical steel framed structure (24" OC) with EPS insulation? I believe Nascor walls is the wood equivalent. Instead of dimensional studs they use wood I-beams. Again the web design to minimize thermal bridging. Also does the Accel system require exterior sheathing for rake loads? Overall, looks like a very nice new panel system. Definitely the weight of 40lbs for a single 4x8 panel makes it very interesting. In terms pouring concrete in between the EPS and say a MgOX board I am not comfortable in burying electrical and plumbings inside of concrete. But, who knows, my mind is always open.
Leonard
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j1mmyjj
New Member
Posts:7
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| 02 Oct 2007 07:45 PM |
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Seems like an excellent product. They don't show any corners on the brochure. Will there be steel at the corners? Also they mention that they frame the windows at the factory. Is that with steel also? If one wants to stack is there a tongue and groove for that? One drawback for someone who would go cheaper like myself is if a rock hit the wall while backfilling.
It looks like it would be easy to run radiant tubing in the walls also.
Jim J |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 03 Oct 2007 10:58 PM |
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I'm going to the MetalCon show in Vegas tomorrow(thursday). I think I saw ACCBT will be there. |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 05 Oct 2007 01:01 AM |
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The product looked good. The guy did admit there is some additional versions coming out. Kama panels looked good too. Fully thermally broken, wire chases precut on the inside face. Kama has thicker foam options than ABT but ABT has the inside wall cavity for additional insulation or can add some to exterior. |
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jmagill
Basic Member
Posts:374
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| 16 Nov 2007 05:58 PM |
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Any update on this product? |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 31 Jan 2012 04:30 PM |
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Seems as Accel E has targeted the commercial market. Anyone have experience w/ Accel panels in residential?
they have thicker EPS panels now and load bearing panels w/ the steel embedded on outside to minimize bridging. |
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