Jensen,

If the house under construction has its roof insulation at ceiling level in an attic, you can place the ICF scrap between the ceiling joists or trusses and then blow whatever insulation you normally use on top of it. It doesn't take very long.

My house, a Logix house, has the scrap from two ICF jobs spread over the attic, then cellulose on top. I couldn't see myself paying for the stuff and then paying again to dump it, then paying again for the cellulose insulation that it displaced.

rgb

YOU GOT IT!

We have done the same But we groud it up and mixed it in the blower and into the attic.
Green , Smart, Easy, DONE

Waste should be below 1% on ANY job. I watched my waste, hauling about 6-8 garbage bags from job to job, and after installing over 25,000 square feet, I had only three garbage bags to toss. On a home I built, which was featured in Canadian Homes and Cottages, the entire house had less than 1% waste, including drywall, carpet siding etc. See the article title green buildings summer 1998 issue, which has pictures. I can forward the article if you wish, please just email me.

One of the benefits of the TF vertical system is that the panels can be ordered to exact plate heights so there is usually no need to cut, or "shave" down the top of the forms thus eliminating one source of waste. (As well as a labor step)

Also, TF is a "knockdown" ICF system which results in a bit of an advantage regarding the waste issue since the two sides of the form are not joined together by a web, thus, a damaged panel may not have to be discarded, it can likely be cut down to fit somewhere else on the job, or even saved for a future job.

What do you do when wall heights are changes after the forms are delivered? It happens, not very often, but it does (normally when the husband asks the wife......what do you think?) hahaha
Anyways, if the homeowner has designed the home to conform to the heights of the ICF forms, normally 8" increments (if 1/2 height forms are avail.), then you eliminate waste from the beginning. Once you are on the jobsite, it is up to the foreman to keep an eye on his crew to be sure that they are not being "wasteful" when cutting forms to fit wall sections).
That being said, the little watse there is at the end should be reused/recycled by using a number of methods (see posts above)

Funny thing: I was on a jobsite the other day (SIPS project) wher ethe contractor was bragging about his zero waste project (as I was looking at full trashcans and mix-and-match piles of "scrap/trash". I am not baggin on SIPS - just happened to be that project - and his project had much less waste than other "conventional" projects I have been on over the years, just making a point that no matter how efficient we try to get there is always going to be some amount waste. We need to find ways to use that waste for practical purposes other that what it was originally meant for, thereby redusing the need to produce something to be used in that application, and so on and so on.

SoCal, How many wall heights are changed after the forms are delivered? Not very often? I've never seen it happen but it could, and, if that did happen, the issue could be addressed whether you were using a "block" ICF, or TF. I don't think that we have to go into the details as to how that would be accomplished at this time, anyone knowledgeable about ICFs can figure that out.  Also, I'll standby my other comments in regard to some of the reasons why less jobsite waste may be generated by the TF ICF system than with typical block systems. (By the way we see many 9' high walls these days.)

Regarding your comments about SIPs: It is very possible for a SIP project to generate "0" SIP scrap waste onsite, if the panels are fabricated off site. When they're fabricated onsite, care should be taken to contain the foam and osb particles that are generated through the cutting process, but many of the larger cut offs can be used on other jobs or, sometimes, even as "samples", as well as for other creative purposes.

Of course, you, and others who've posted on this subject, are absolutely correct in regards to the importance of the issue of "waste" in the overall "green" building process.

way to ask me a question I already answered in my original post......... ("It happens, not very often, but it does")

All you do with block is stack another course on top or half height course, whatever. I've seen at least three projects where the wall height increased in height after the icfs were ordered adn delivered. Like I said earlier, it doesn't happen often, so my question was.....if it does happen how do you address it with vert systems that are pre-cut to the wall height?

9' walls? standard? Every custom home i come across has different wall height 8', 8'6", 9', 9'4" etc.

I love people who make arguments just to say something. The guy was bragging about a "zero waste project" (quoted from above). P-R-O-J-E-C-T, the entire thing. I just mentioned it happened to be SIPS that he was using for the walls. As to your statement about recycling the sips waste (cut offs) on another project, could't you do the same with the EPS left over from ICFs?

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Almost all waste from ICF can be recycled.  If it was a panel system and the piece had a tie in it, it can be reused in a wall someplace.  We have reused many small pieces even down to 2" in builds we have done.  Even rips in a panel system can be used.  If you are working with a  12" panel use 6  2" rips to form one 12" panel.  If no tie it can be used for insulation if ground.  The plastic ties can be recycled into other plastic pieces.  All of it can be recycled in some way.   Block systems can be handled in the same manner but panels are easier because, with planning you only need to strap one side.
All recycling takes time and planning. 

This works quite well, we have learned to use just about all the scrap, down to a garbage bag per job.

One of the advantages of this form, and one of the reasons we get higher leed points on our jobs.

and no, it does not take very much time to do it.  In short, why throw it out.

the three "R"s of waste management

First reduce, then reuse, then recycle.

Reduce your materials needed, ergo less manufacturing and shipping this means less carbon footprint.
reuse your materials as much as possible, this means a neutral carbon footprint.
recycling is the last thing you want to do, energy is requried to ship and re-manufacture an item, increasing the carbon footprint.

Think first, then build, you can reduce waste dramatically, I built a house with less than a 1/2 ton truck full of waste, good planning and proper construction, and its amazing what you can do. (I was asked to clarify this statement, the entire wast would fit in a 1/2 ton truck, not just from the ICF, however the entire finished home, which was 1138 square feet with basement, accomplished back in 1999)

Mark Ross

Whoa.....

Hey, SoCal! What's the problem? I thought that we were having another civilized dialogue, and you throw in an insult like "I love people who make arguments just to say something". As far as I'm concerned my comments are as valid as yours, and I pay my dues, so I'll throw my 2 cents worth in whensever I see fit, especially when I'm challenged.

My post on 3/17 was spot on topic, re "ICF Waste", and I addressed that issue very briefly from the perspective of the ICF product that I represent. You're the one who came back with questions about "wall height changes after the forms are delivered" If you'll go back and re read our posts you'll see that I said "that has never happened to me but it could" (I should have said that "I suppose that it could", but I was trying not to be argumentative)

I don't really want to beat this poor horse to death but as far as I'm concerned this concern regarding wall heights being increased after the ICF materials are delivered is really not much of an issue. How do you handle these situations? do you just order an extra course of "blocks" for every project just in case this happens, or do you have a huge supply of materials in storage already? Or, is your ICF supplier in your "backyard"? Now, if your answer to any of these questions is "of course" then I'll admit that you may have me on this one because it would be a hassle, and we would have to order some more materials. However, our foam panel provider is not that far from our primary market area, and the plastic "studs" aren't very bulky, and could ship pretty fast, so maybe it wouldn't be that bad after all.

Next, I didn't say that 9' walls were "standard" I said "By the way, we see many 9' high walls these days" and we do, we also see many 10", and some 11', walls, all dimensions that aren't divisable by 16", or 8" for that matter, so my only point was that with TF we can supply exact plate heights up to 12' which covers the majority of residential wall heights, and many commercial structures as well (Except for many rake walls, and TF can be "stacked" to virtually any height, as can most blocks) (No "block knocking" at all is intended here, just trying to reinforce the benefits of the producst that I represent like many other of the participants on these forums)

My point with all of this detail is that I think that when we critique, or debate, one another on these forums that we need to be accurate as to what the other person actually said if we're going to quote them.

Oh, and the only reason that I said anything about SIPs is that you brought them into the mix with your post, and, I responded briefly to your comments in this regard. As a matter of record, my firm is a SIP distributor also, and the principal ,a GC, and I have each been working with this system for about 15 years.

So, SoCal, can we move on? I'm assuming that you're exclusive to a specific ICF brand? If you are, I hope that things are going well, however, if you ever think that you might be interested in "going vertical", or need a SIP roof for a project, be in touch.

By the way, whatever you think about these comments, kudos on your 11/19/08 post (I believe that was the date)countering "the Napalm, Embalming fluid, Firewood Guy" who posts under at least three or four different usernames that we know about, and who knows how many more. There were several others who also did a good job with their opposing arguments. I don't know how I missed that thread because I've joined that frey on more than one occasion.

Oops! I miss spoke in my last post. So a 10' high wall IS divisible by 8" increments thus no cutting required to achieve that wall height for blocks that offer a half course. I know that someone would have caught me on that.

we have been stripping steel sip skins for recycling and posting the scrap foam core on craigs list for "free" insulation or crafts...watch it disappear!

We place our leftovers flat on the ceiling in the attic area as extra insulation as we usually blow cellulose in our jobs over all of it.

medelpadconst;

if you have a truss roof thats a great way to keep it out of the landfills

www.epspackaging.org/info.html

 

Quick note on all this "recycling" of EPS and Plastic.

Its really great that it is "recyclable" however I would seriously like to see some posts as to where, and what it costs to ship the recycling to the very, very few locations that take these items. Use less on site, and you solve the problem, particularly if you can use it all.

We are on a platinum LEED hotel, the design is such that waste was cut from 12.8% for everything from ICF forms, to drywall and steel studs, and have researched all the local recycling places, even the packaging for all these items (platinum is no joke if you do it with any sense of commitment), waste was reduced to less than 3% in design and reduced packaging requests to suppliers. As for recycling, even being that close to NY city, there are NO eps recyclers, and very limited packaging recyclers. They will recycle plastic bottles, but not bags for example.

It was kind of disapointing.

Hi,

I always attempt to minimize the waste by submitting my order as late as possible to take into account changes in walls/footings etc.  I've always sent my Durisol waste back to the manufacturer and they reuse it.  When I've done the EPS ICF's, I've used the waste on site either in backfill or below the slab.  Either case, I typically have very little material to deal with.  It takes a little more effort up front, but I'm happy to do it.