I heard that the 2006 IRC does not require a barrier, tar paper, between above grade concrete and non-treated wood. I tried to find it in the book but gave up, this is easier. Is this so? If so, where can I find it?

Here's the entire paragraph. Note paragraph 2.

R319.1 Location required. Protection from decay shall be
provided in the following locations by the use of naturally
durable wood or wood that is preservative treated in accordance
with AWPA U1 for the species, product, preservative
and end use. Preservatives shall be listed in Section 4 of
AWPA U1.

1. Wood joists or the bottom of a wood structural floor
when closer than 18 inches (457 mm) or wood girders
when closer than 12 inches (305 mm) to the exposed
ground in crawl spaces or unexcavated area located
within the periphery of the building foundation.

2. All wood framing members that rest on concrete or
masonry exterior foundation walls and are less than 8
inches (203 mm) from the exposed ground.

3. Sills and sleepers on a concrete or masonry slab that is in
direct contact with the ground unless separated from
such slab by an impervious moisture barrier.

4. The ends of wood girders entering exterior masonry or concrete
walls having clearances of less than 0.5 inch (12.7
mm) on tops, sides and ends.

5. Wood siding, sheathing and wall framing on the exterior
of a building having a clearance of less than 6 inches (152
mm) from the ground.

6. Wood structural members supporting moisture-permeable
floors or roofs that are exposed to the weather, such
as concrete or masonry slabs, unless separated from such
floors or roofs by an impervious moisture barrier.

7. Wood furring strips or other wood framing members
attached directly to the interior of exterior masonry walls
or concrete walls below grade except where an approved
vapor retarder is applied between the wall and the furring
strips or framing members.

That is specific to treated within 8 inches. Beyond 8 inches do we need to put a barrier between non-treated and concrete?

I operate on the premise that specific inclusion implies the exclusion of everything else, therefore barrier is not required above 8" even for untreated.

Read the requirement this way:

Protection from decay shall be provided [for] All wood framing members that rest on concrete or masonry exterior foundation walls and are less than 8
inches (203 mm) from the exposed ground.

On the other hand, my civil engineer cousin advocates the use of a barrier between concrete and wood simply because the temperature differences between the wood and concrete can lead to condensation at the interface. I will be using sill seal foam for a barrier between the concrete and DF window and door bucks in my ICF house which is now, finally, under way!

What prevents condensation on the sill seal?

dmaceld,
I agree with your cousin. I've seen too many rotten sill plates that were far more than 8" above the ground. In our climate, any moisture in the air will condense on the concrete and soak into the plates. Even with sill seal, we use pressure treated sills.

Condensation happens when a surface is colder than the dew point around it. I would think that condensation would form on the wood buck before the concrete because it is nearer the exterior. So the sill seal wouldn't help.

All wood contacting concrete in any structure should be PT or the use of a moisture barrier is mandated by all print specifications and building departments that we have ever worked in FL. Can't imagine not doing this detail.

FlaICF, do you think there is a problem useing white lumber on concrete above grade? If so, what problem? Do you use green now or a barrier?

Who will continue to use presure treated or a barrier, even though code does not require it?

I, for one, don't care what the code books say about this subject, if wood and concrete come together, anywhere, the wood will be pressure treated on my jobs. As I said earlier, I've seen too much rotten wood to ever chance it in one of my projects. Remember, the code books are MINIMUM standards, not necessarily best practices.

I hear you wes, but I am getting more and more customers that do not want pressure treated lumber and I don't think tar paper does much.

bkvanbek,

What about using thin galvanized metal between untreated wood and concrete that is above grade.

No one should object to using treated wood called Timbersil since it does not contain harmful chemicals.  See www.timbersilwood.com  (Not code approved yet).

At the 2008 International Builders' Show I saw a new type of treated wood without chemicals.  I was told that it was heat treated.  See Westwood at www.westwoodcorporation.com

I agree that traditional green treated wood sucks on many levels. I hope that timbersil or some equivalent product becomes feasible soon.
Alton, I'm not sure that I would trust the metal to eliminate the condensation factor of the hot, humid areas that we live in.
I'm not familar with the westwood product yet.

Good call,
 Code is just a d- in the grade book . Some things like money are the driving force in the difference an A+ and a D-
You get what you pay for , but pay for what you get!

Has anyone seen this buck material? 2m Squared

I seen this and used it in one build.

watch how you keep it dry, windows have a condensation issue water and osb are not friendly.

$ is ? per. ft

This was a sip off chute that I saw about 5 years ago. It was used with tf and did save on labor on icf install.

Hope this helps.

In past years I was able to locate 2x12 KD DF, but its not easy anymore. With the new chemicals in PT, EVERYTIME there is moisture there is a reaction, whether against adjacent materials or airborne! That is why I do not encourage pt other than the foundation level. In that case, the possibility of moisture issues over-rides untreated lumber anyway!, but on subsequent floors....it untreated. I do use a 15# or 30# barrier, which only performs practically for the duration of the pouring and curing period!

The 8" rule for "decay resistant" lumber does cause consternation, but common sense also takes a part. For example, using pt sills in a basement remodel was the norm for years. You may use untreated sills if there is a vapor barrier in place under the slab, but that may not be able to be determined in older homes! So my take on this type of situation is if the wall is bearing, use the pt plates, non-bearing, use whatever. This assumes we don't have a standing or constant water issue!

So common sense can be implemented in some of these instances. Just as some say..I only use pt...others say, I use what I determine to be a balance in what I provide my clients.

Both parties are right within their own beliefs!!

The term is "builders warranty" to guarantee good building practices so that no problems arise in the future. Jim is a New England guy and it's been along time since I have been cold or built anything "up nawth". Concrete is a sponge, a moisture wick. It will always have a moisture issue at any level, in my opinion and from what I have experienced. Our FL building codes require PT or barrier. Never white wood on contact. Avoiding anything that would promote rot.
We also have termites to deal with.
I have torn out steel galv. stud and track framing that had completely deteriorated because of long term contact with concrete. No moisture barrier.
I'll stick with PT by choice and necessity. And the use of moisture barrier when needed.
ll