Lana,
Where are you located? I would be interested in hearing what your waterproofing and engineering people have to say.
This is a situation that all of us who build basements fear seeing. The cause and remedy of your problem should be of great interest to everyone in this business. Please keep us appraised.

how do you all use the peel and stick on basements with a brick ledge? do you continue it up over the ledge. also would you bring the dimpled mat up flush with the ledge?

We are in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. We have had consultations with a foundation expert, and a waterproofing expert. Both feel that the house needs to be trenched, tiles checked, new membrane, add dimple paper and rebackfill. We agree.....the builder doesn't.

Oops, I had previously posted this in the wrong place. This seems to be the right forum topic. I want to build an ICF house in North Carolina, USA on a 4 acre plot next to a river (somewhat swampy area). The river could flood over during a hurricane hence the land is considered in a flood area. Either way, others are building stickbuilt homes with 5 ft crawl spaces and decks to ensure the house is abover the potential floodline. I had an idea to just poor a slab, build up the wall to 7-8 ft, super waterseal it, then using soil that Iwill dig out from an acre size pond on the land, backfill the walls to top of the "basement" with a 30 degree slope or maybe less to create a hill around my house. Then I'll build a 2 story ICF house starting at the top of the basement wall. The effect will be to have a house on a small hill with a basement, though of course in reality I built it ground level. However, it absolutely, positively, without any room for doubt, must be waterproof--forever. I figure if people can build concrete swimming pools to keep water in, then I can build one (the basement) to keep water out. Anybody, know of any similar projects. I thought of lining the underslab with a pond liner that could also continue up the walls, pour the concrete on the liner for the slab/floor, build the walls up, pull the liner up, put peel n'stick over it on the walls and glue the liner over that, spray it with tons of sealant, but dimple board stuff over it, say a few Hail Marry's and on and on. Help! (Think earth home in a swamp, except just the basement. ;-). What is the best way to waterproof that?
Jonathan

Jonathan,

It might be best to start a new thread so we do not hijack this one.  I am afraid we will distract from the earlier questions in the original thread.  You might want to call the new thread "Swamp Basement".

Alton and others,
Ok sorry...I'll go back to my swamp ha ha ha! I guess my point was not my swamp basement, but the most effective means to seal a basement (during construction) period! I have read these forums for hours and it is scarry to see how many people are having water problems after using ICF. I almost am about the reconsider ICFs for the basement, and the reason is merely that they do not allow me to inspect the concrete after it sets because the foam is in the way. Of course I could just tear/burn it off, but then what's the point. So, I did get this email after posting here. (I am such a noob at forums I don't even know how the mechanics of this place work...sorry again.) I left out the contact and personal data because I was afraid I would violate some sort of protocol or something, but if I can give this guy business please let me know. I checked out his recommended websites and am pretty much back to believing that it IS indeed possible to build a waterfree basement in a swamp! ha.

Email received below:

The best way to ensure you will never have water problems in the type of setting you have discribed is to find a contractor who has a record of doing so and has an impeccable warranty program.

When I did this type of work I offered a "life of structure" warranty.

I used www.xypex and www.kryton as well as drainage and airgap technology to acheive this.

You need to keep in mind that concrete boats are also made. Allow for relief of hydrostatic pressure or the house will float!!

It is possible I know someone in your area as I worked in many states.

End email.

Hope this helps....now back to Dagobah.

When using the dimple board for the ICF foundation would you recommend rolling a water based sealant as well?

A dimpled board against the ICF wall removes the ability to have enough pressure to force itself through the wall verry well.  But the water does need somewhere to go.  That's why you need a drainage system at the footer level that the water can find a way out.  Delta drain or drain tile needs to be in place for the water pressure to escape.  The same analagy applies wheather the wall is ICF, concrete or concrete block.

Islander..yes that is a good idea.

I agree totally with Tom et al.

"Air Gap Membrane" systems are the ONLY proven materials to provide foundation wall drainage.

In tandem with a properly installed footing drainage system, and mechanical sump ,

 this is all that is required to prevent water infiltration, into the average basement.


  Time and again, at this forum, Peel and Stick membrane failures are noted, due to their ability to"trap" water
 
behind their face, with no ability direct water back to the exterior.

   In a "clay backfill" situation, you can almost predict Peel and Stick will fail , early on.

To have any chance of success with a Peel and S, only free draining backfill should be used.

   Peel and Stick's are expensive and wasteful of raw resources, difficult and costly to install properly ,

whereas "Air Gap" are made from recyclables and cheap to install , almost idiot proof..which works for me:-)

   I know full well that a majority of block manufacturers recommend and sell a P & S product, so a certain

amount of fault rests with them, for setting their customers up for failure :-(


  We do 50 to 75 basements a year,  mostly custom and receive NO call backs.

  Haven't used a  P & S for 5 years :-)

Chris,

Thanks for your recommendation on the peel and stick type products.  The Planton system claims to be "the ICFs, most user friendly waterproofing product."  But they use a Speedclip/Speedstrip fastening system, screwed at the top edge.  This method sounds like a lot of labor to install.

Are you familiar with a product called, Enkadrain?  This Drainage and Waterproofing System is designed for Foundations and Retaining Walls, ICFs, and other commerical applications. Although I was unable to determine if this product is peel and stick.

Jade

Enkadrain is a premium drainage mat that can be used in vertical and horizontal applications.
Platon speed clips screw to ICF's very quickly, no problem.

My distributor supplied me with both Platon and DMX. I found the flat edge worked much better than using the DMX trim strip on an edge formed by cutting through the dimple area. I also liked the wider flat edge area of the Platon better than the DMX.

One caution from what I learned. The plastic membrane has a tremendous coefficient of expansion. All of the membrane we put on when the weather was cool (40s & 50s) expanded like h*** when the sun shone on it and it got warm. It buckled like crazy in between the screws. In fact we undid one wall of plastic when it was hot from the sun, stretched it out more, and reattached it. We somewhat resolved the problem on all the rest of the membrane by putting in screws with DMX washers on every web. I suggest you roll out the membrane and attach it when it's as hot as it can get from sunshine. It'll tighten up nice and pretty when it cools! The DMX trim strips expanded the most.

Great tip Mac !

It is a great tip!  Every time we have put it on here in the South it's been hotter than Haties. 

I was told by different installers that for the ICF if the delta drain is installed with drain rock and weeping tiles there is no need to apply a roll on water based damp proof.  What is you all think about that?

I all agree Islander :-)

And ICF contractor that we're speaking with says he uses only MS Delta Clear. Is this good enough? Do you need drain rock all the way up or just around the tile?

Thanks

My ICF foundation wall on one side seems to be at grade. I believe I need 8" above grade before any siding can be applied. That is where the parging would take place. Any ideas short of lowering the grade of my backyard to deal with this problem?

You either need to change the grade or increase the height of the foundation. Someone messed up bad.

If I build ICF below grade, should I use peal and stick with a dimple material on top? Or is the peal and stick a waste of money and use just the dimple material? My soil is a mixture of sand and clay, with spots really sandy, and spots that are pure clay. Do I fill with drainage stone on the backfill against the wall all the way up to almost grade if I use peal and stick only? That seems like a lot of stone, and can get pricey. Which would be me best option? I have a daylight basement so only the sides and back of the basement are below grade, with the grade sloping on the sides.

Thank you.