syberhouse
New Member
Posts:6
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| 13 May 2008 10:30 PM |
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I need some help determining an effective way to attach sheetrock to rastra walls. I initially heard that it was typically glued - if this is true, what kind (brand/type) of glue? how much and where to apply and how do you keep the board in place until it dries?
I considered smearing plaster or adheasive to where the joins will butt so that after it dries it will hold screws tight enough while the board glue dries but that doesn't seem like it would work. Someone suggested using plaster but if I do that I may as well plaster the entire wall.
Another idea is to route a channel at the joints and glue in 1x4's to screw the wallboard to the rastra along with drywall glue squiggled along the back surface. cutting these channels is messy and time consuming.
What are the methods you guys use to secure sheetrock to rastra ?
Thanks
Al |
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GreenOaks
New Member
Posts:26
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| 13 May 2008 10:43 PM |
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Al,
I'm curious as to why you want to install sheetrock on a rastra wall in the first place. One of the attractions of Rastra (for me, at least) was its ability to take a plaster/joint compound w/out having to install drywall. All of the homes I've seen w/ Rastra have used this approach.
To answer your question, though, I would think that PL400 would do the trick. I would apply glue to the back of the panel and attach to the wall. Then I would run a bead along the edge before applying the next sheet.
Jeff |
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| Jeff<br>Green Oaks Building & Remodeling<br>www.greenoaksremodeling.com |
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syberhouse
New Member
Posts:6
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| 13 May 2008 11:50 PM |
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Thanks for the reply Jeff,
I think in various discussions I have always heard that using sheetrock was the 'modern standard', and just assumed that it was as common to green building as it is to conventional frame houses. I had not heard plaster mentioned, I suppose because most people don't do it anymore (here in Arizona, I had a hard time even finding a box of plaster of paris patch at the local big box). It takes a lot of skill to produce a smooth even plaster wall, and then you have possible cracking and difficulty with nailing pictures up etc. that wallboard solves, but that is another subject.
I am starting to consider plastering as it seems that the amount of work to install furring would be about half the effort of plastering. Of course textured plaster is a substiture for skilled application. Are you indicating tha joint compound would produce a satisfactory alternative to plaster or wallboard? That may be easier to work. I will give it a try on a test area.
Thanks for the idea
Al |
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Manfred
Basic Member
Posts:200
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| 14 May 2008 09:44 AM |
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Another way to attach sheetrock to Rastra is to first cut out all appropriate penetrations into the sheetrock, basically dry-fitting the panel before the actual attachment. Then use drywall compound and apply to Rastra in a way so that you have a swath about 3" wide and apply every 18" the whole width of the drywall. Then place the drywall onto the Rastra thereby compressing the compound in between the Rastra and drywall. You have a few minutes to slide the panel around for a final, good fit. |
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| Manfred Knobel<br>Moss Pointe Builders, Inc. |
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syberhouse
New Member
Posts:6
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| 14 May 2008 11:08 AM |
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Manfred, thanks - that sounds along the lines of a technique I am looking for.
A little history.... I have an existing sante fe that I added 3 additions to using rastra because 1. the supplier was in Tucson so I could buy what I needed locally and 2. this is a DIY project (ugh) that I have been doing for a couple years in my spare time. I added a 10x10 foyer to the front, a 12x10 addition to the dining area and a 18 x24 room that looks out to the mountains. I basically built against my existing house until the additions were closed up and secured thn cut out the existing windows in my existing outside wall to form the 'doorways' to the new areas. I stuccoed the outside and am now starting on the inside. Needless to say this project has drug on too long so I am interested in getting it done. I live way out in the country so finding compentent contractors is a problem and since I have some previous construction experience, I am doing the work myself. I want to use sheetrock because the rest of the house is done with it, and because once a sheet is up, a large area is covered quickly. (the Mrs sees progress faster ya know...)but I will probably plaster those existing rough stucco walls that used to be exterior but are now interior.
Last night I tried routing out a couple of 1/2" x 3" verticle channels and foam gluing a flush strip of OSB into the rastra wall. This worked pretty well and didn't take as long as I thought it would but it is really dusty to do. the wood will give me a place to screw to but if I can avoind the mess of routing I would like that.
I see the apparent ease of your suggestion of using joint compound every 18" (what you refer to as drywall compound is the same thing, right?) and I suppose I could brace it somehow until it dries. I just want to make sure it stays up.
I have a couple tubs of FRP adheasive I won't be using anytime soon - does anyone think this would be adequate to attach the sheetrock?
Also, which direction is best to orient the sheets (10' wall and I can't handle 12' sheets myself so I am using 8' ). A sheetrock installer told me to lay them horizontal and the joints wouldn't be as noticable but using glue as the sole adhesive I worry that the weight of the upper sheet and a half could cause separation or other problems, so I am thinking of standing the sheets vertically and pay more attention to taping and sanding.
Thanks
Al |
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Manfred
Basic Member
Posts:200
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| 14 May 2008 01:49 PM |
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Al, yes drywall compound or joint compound refers to the same thing. I have seen this done with great success. THey put the drywall on horizontal and stacked on top of that. If you are afraid that there is going to be seperation between the base aggregate, in your case Rastra, and the drywall you also can use a drywall powder and mix it yourself. Curing times are as short as 30 minutes to as long as 1 hour. The only draw back is that you need to be quick when you use these fast drying compounds. You would need at least another guy to do this. In your case, with no one around for miles or days, I would stick with the regular compound which tends to cure over 24 hours. After compressing the drywall to the Rastra you can further use a 2x4 and slap it on the drywall for better adhesion. |
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| Manfred Knobel<br>Moss Pointe Builders, Inc. |
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syberhouse
New Member
Posts:6
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| 14 May 2008 03:09 PM |
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Thanks - I will try it tonight and let y'all know how it works in a couple days |
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woulfcc
Basic Member
Posts:147
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| 14 May 2008 06:42 PM |
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Do NOT use pail mud on rasra it shrinks and will look like spiderweb cracks all over.
Pail mud is for top coat ,thin layers and will get soft if it gets wet.
I would use a dura bond 90 powder mix to start out and sand the high spots than use a larger knife with pail mud to top it off.
You can just skew dry wall in to rasra (predrill a hole the same size or a Little smaller than your screw) .
Than use a piece of braided wire in the hole and run the screw in they hold great.
I still would use glue (pl 200 or dura bond foame glue) to hold the sheet rock.
Good luck, |
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| Changing How the World BUILDS!<br>Green , Done , Easy<br>Woulf c.c. of Wisconsin |
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Mark Fleming
Basic Member
Posts:112
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| 28 May 2008 12:06 AM |
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Drywall on Rastra seems like an odd step, sort of like putting drywall on your car. Rastra is intended for direct application of a stucco/plaster coating. In Tucson, there is no lack of persons with stucco, mud, plaster, adobe, etc. application experience. They're often called "illegals." Seriously, you are in the land of the Rastra finishers.
Getting it too look like drywall might be difficult. Don't use Beadex or any type of drywall "mud." These are too soft. Rastra can take a pretty good punch, but drywall mud is a fluffy soft stuff that will easily dent and flake off. Something like Structolite would be a minimum. Better might be a guaging plaster or Diamond Coat. Material costs are low, the learning curve is quick. If the project is under 1,000 sf., you might try it yourself. $14 for a trowel and $100 in materials. Cheaper than drywall, and no furring, gouging, gluing, etc.
Mark |
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syberhouse
New Member
Posts:6
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| 28 May 2008 10:37 AM |
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Thanks for the tips Mark,
I spent the weekend trying out the suggestions. My chiropractor referred me to a painter that has a rastra house and he too said they installed his sheetrock using joint compound dabbed on the back and held in place with 16d nails until it dried. That was 8 years ago and he said he hasn't have any trouble since. The engineer in me is skeptical that joint compound has enough tensil strength to hold securely, it might, but the manuf of the PL line indicated that in their tests only PL400 met their stds to glue sheetrock to rastra. I just don't want to tak that big a chance on having a mess to deal with. I tend to over-engineer things anyway. In my tests PL200 (at half the cost) is good enough especially with the additional screw support.
I see merit in the twisted wire trick mentioned, as I can see how it might grab and allow the screw to tighten by binding the wire up. I couldn't seem to learn the technique to make it work though. I tried different types of wire and ways of twisting it and wrapping it with/against the screw direction. None worked for me so that is a developed technique. I did a part of a wall (in a closet) with plaster and that method looks promising as long as the batch of plaster is workable. My batch was plastic only a short time so for a bigger batch I need to slow its thickening time.
I'm 100 miles from Tucson, down by the border, so all of the skilled labor is trying to get away from this area as fast as possible. Maybe I should post some help wanted signs in spanish out back on the trail.
Most of a day was spent with a roto tool with a 3/4" router bit and a jig cutting 3"x1/2" channels every 4' floor to ceiling and glueing in OSB. In my experiments, this seemed to be the strongest and quickest way to get the walboard up, although I am now thinking I may mix in some areas of rough plaster for rustic appearance. Thanks for the product suggestions, that is what I needed to get me started. A big part of every solution is knowing wich of the many products out there to use.
Thanks
Al |
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ReadyToRetire
Basic Member
Posts:212
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| 28 May 2008 01:44 PM |
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Al,
What type of plaster are you using?
Larry
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Mark Fleming
Basic Member
Posts:112
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| 28 May 2008 03:15 PM |
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I seem to recall that Structolite has a 45 minute work time. It's probably the easiest commercial mix for the novice to apply. It contains perlite, which makes it lighter, but also softer when dry.
I've also used Claycote and other earthen mud mixes. It's really quite nice to work with and, basically, has no kick time and can be "tempered" indefinately. It stays pliable as long as it stays wet. You can even re-wet it and rework a spot that gets dinged. Reworking is often done if you get any cracks that bother you (which you probably will on Rastra if you need to put it on over 1/2 inch to correct for wall irregularites).
I put on several patches of Claycote on the exterior of my house foundation. It's sort of my field testing area. I've also got a couple patches of commercial stucco mix and a couple of home-made lime/sand mixes, plus some color tests. It's on the side that gets the sun, wind, and rain (Seattle, so equal parts of sun and rain). I have been amazed that the Claycote still looks perfect after 4 years. As long as it's not bothered when wet, it looks like it would last forever. It's also harder than the lime plaster, cracked less (zero cracks) than the cementicious plaster, and adheres better than both.
A little scary to think of using this on the exterior, but other cultures have done so on buildings lasting hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years. Nothing is greener than mud.
Mark |
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syberhouse
New Member
Posts:6
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| 29 May 2008 03:49 PM |
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Larry,
I went to Lowes and all they had was DAP plaster of paris - big bag or half gallon size patching box so that is what I tried. From the above comments, sounds like I got the wrong thing. Will look for Claycote or Structolite if it is available w/o a special order. |
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