Window Weatherproofing Help Needed
Last Post 04 Sep 2009 10:03 AM by Klorinth. 13 Replies.
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KlorinthUser is Offline
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19 May 2009 06:31 AM

I need help understanding how to install and seal windows in ICF. I have been looking at and reading about the installation of windows here on the forum and have found very interesting information.

My issue is that when I look at the ICF foam I can't see how you can create a seal on it that would withstand strong wind driven rain, not to mention rain that then freezes. The only thing that I can see is using multiple layers. I have looked at installing the windows basically like in a standard stick frame wall, then lay on another 1/2" to 1" of foam to create an exterior seal over the internal one. then the final finish over that. I would be using cultured stone.


Am I totally missing something. OK, of course I am, or I would not be asking.

I will take any help I can get.

Please.

jamesmacdonald1User is Offline
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19 May 2009 07:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpqJxbk5qwc - This is one of the best examples of the correct way to flash and install windows. It is for standard construction, but the majority of the steps are the same.

http://www.buildingsciencecorp.com/resources/presentations/Dallas_Zero_Energy_House.pdf is a case study that used Durisol ICF and cultured stone. The last 20 pages or so go over the flashing/window installation process.

Good luck!
KlorinthUser is Offline
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20 May 2009 04:47 AM
Thank you for the help James.

That PDF was interesting. My only issue is with the application of an "elastic membrane". How can something be applied to a foam ICF block when nothing sticks to it for very long?

In conventional construction there are lots of things that will stick to the wood or exposed concrete. That means it is relatively easy to get a good seal prior to installing the window. But what can you use that will stick to the foam? This is what has me stumped.

I can't see how to start. I can do everything from the window out. I'm just not sure about the part under/before the window.
jamesmacdonald1User is Offline
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20 May 2009 08:14 AM
The pdf was for applying to Durisol (no polystyrene). The following link shows a product that they say will adheres to EPS

http://secure.loyola.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1733. I haven't tried it so I can't really comment.
thagreenUser is Offline
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20 May 2009 02:18 PM
Peel & Stick icf colphene is what's mostly used in my parts for both basement waterproofing and window sealing(outside portion). For the gap in between win/wall, use spray foam. There is a product on the market especialy designed for this application which doesn't expand as much as the regular stuff (remains flexible while keeping a tight seal). You could go w/ the regular stuff but make sure to keep windows closed and not spray to much.
Test it out, spray a small quantity and watch it expand.
BTW, The icf colphene sticks like crazy. If exposed for long period simply add roofing nails to top of sheet and it'll stay in place.
Cheers!
arkie6User is Offline
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20 May 2009 03:20 PM
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Batang; panose-1:2 3 6 0 0 1 1 1 1 1; mso-font-alt:바탕; mso-font-charset:129; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1342176593 1775729915 48 0 524447 0;} @font-face {font-family:"\@Batang"; panose-1:2 3 6 0 0 1 1 1 1 1; mso-font-charset:129; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1342176593 1775729915 48 0 524447 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:Batang;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> <!--[if gte mso 10]> My window sealing plan is to roll a ~4"-6" wide band around the window opening on the exterior foam with Sta Kool SK-780 silconized elastomeric roof coating (see link below).  While the coating is still wet, I will set the windows and attach to the bucks.  After the exposed elastomeric coating is fully dried, I will then apply ~4" wide Tamko Flash-N-Wrap over the window nailing flanges and coated foam.

 

The Sta Kool coating is intended for application on polystyrene foam (see datasheet on link) among many other things.  I have experimented with this elastomeric coating and it really sticks to the foam.  If you give it plenty of time to dry, you can use it to stick two pieces of EPS foam together and you will break the foam apart trying to separate them.

 

Link:  Sta Kool SK-780

 

Link:  TAMKO Flash-N-Wrap

thagreenUser is Offline
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20 May 2009 03:35 PM
Looks like good products!
Have you asked around about these?
arkie6User is Offline
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20 May 2009 05:29 PM
Posted By thagreen on 05/20/2009 3:35 PM
Have you asked around about these?

Nope.

I did learn about TAMKO products from my ICF supplier.  He recommended the TAMKO 60 mil peel & stick waterproofing for my below grade basement walls.  I inspected a basement be built and waterproofed and was impressed with it.  He also sealed the edges with the TAMKO mastic.

Looking around the local home center and hardware stores I found these products, then did a little internet research on them, then bought some of the elastomeric coating (~$16/gal) to experiment with and decided on this route. 

I've had a lot of time to look into this since we've been in monsoon season here for the past several months.  This is the first dry week that we have had in I don't know when.  But of course it is supposed to rain again this weekend - Argh!
KlorinthUser is Offline
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21 May 2009 04:25 AM
Thanks Guys!

Very interesting products. I like the look of the Sta-Kool roll on. That would work well with my plans for finishing the exterior. I was looking at adding 4" trim of EPS around the windows and covering with the cultured stone to add depth to the windows esthetics. That stuff would work well for sealing and adding the layer of EPS.

I'll have to see if I can find any near here.

Thanks
arkie6User is Offline
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21 May 2009 12:17 PM
Posted By Klorinth on 05/21/2009 4:25 AM
Thanks Guys!

Very interesting products. I like the look of the Sta-Kool roll on. That would work well with my plans for finishing the exterior. I was looking at adding 4" trim of EPS around the windows and covering with the cultured stone to add depth to the windows esthetics. That stuff would work well for sealing and adding the layer of EPS.

I'll have to see if I can find any near here.

Thanks

I wouldn't really recommend using the Sta Kool as a bonding agent between layers of EPS foam.  It takes a long time to fully dry when sandwiched between layers.  When I tore the foam apart above, the only part that had fully dryed in over a week was ~1/2" around the outer edge - in the middle it was still wet.  But it was also relatively damp and cool in my workshop when I did this which doesn't help the drying process.  It works great for sealing edges and filling in irregularites where the surface is exposed to the atmosphere.

For gluing foam together, I would recommend Dow Enerbond or Enerfoam foam in a can (haven't used - just read about it) or Titebond II wood glue.  I have used the Titebond to glue some EPS foam together and you cannot break that bond once it has dried.  And a gallon of the Titebond II is about the same price/gallon as the elastomeric coating or maybe just a little more.  You can also buy a small bottle of the Titebond to experiment with (I keep some in the workshop all of the time).
KlorinthUser is Offline
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22 May 2009 10:59 AM
Thanks Arkie,

I think I would be using it to simply cover and seal all the edges and seams. I don't know if I can get the Sta Kool specifically, but I can get something similar. I'm not certain about using a second layer of EPS, my wife doesn't think she likes the idea. Either way I will need to attach a layer of something. I do have a half roll of peel and stick ice guard... It does not stick to EPS, for long anyway. I would prefer the ones mentioned above, but may not be able to any here.

I'm starting to hate this.

Does the Sta Kool use anything on top of it? Or should I just be looking at using an elastomeric coating then placing the cultured stone finish directly on it?
icf4meUser is Offline
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03 Sep 2009 10:04 AM
Protecto Wrap makes a liquid applied flashing - LWN200. It's pricey, but goes on well.
Opus User is Offline
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03 Sep 2009 08:25 PM
Ames Blue Max is a liquid waterproofing membrane trhat works well with ICF.
KlorinthUser is Offline
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04 Sep 2009 10:03 AM
Thank you both for the suggestions. I like the liquid/roll on coatings. That is what I decided to go with. Locally the easiest to find was Blu-Seal. Bright blue coloured elastomeric coating. I applied multiple coatings of this allowing it to dry between each one. Worked beautifully! After only two coats we had a big storm that pounded the windows with big rain and wind. Not a single issue. None of the coating showed any sign of damage from this beating. It wasn't until one of the dogs decided to taste it that I had any problems.

Thank you everyone for the great advise and help. I really appreciate it. I think it made all the difference. I just wish I had seen this product before I had the basement backfilled. I would have coated the entire thing! lol Would have looked interesting all bright blue. lol

Thanks
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