I am curious if anyone has experience with exocore's ICF products.  I have recently been in contact with the company's president, and am awaiting a quote.  I do really like his product, but have only spoken to him about it.  If anyone has experience, I REALLY need it!  Exocore uses urenthane instead of styrene, which is fire proof(it does blacken, but remains useable), mold and insect/vermin proof, and uses less concrete than typical ICF forms.  It has a R-38 rating, and when the second/third floors are built with it, it only requires every second tube to be filled with concrete.  Because of it's fire rating, it doesn't drip/change shape like styrene products, and has been tested to 3000 F.  Not sure if this is allowed here, (moderators forgive me if I break the rules) but for more info www.exocore.ca



Thanks,
Eli.

I see 12 of you looked. No advice? Thoughts, comments? You won't hurt my feelings even if you say bad things.....

Eli,

Facts:

-Polyurethane is NOT fireproof. A simple google search netting me information that proves that polyurethane IS NOT fireproof. They will mix fire-retardants with the product to reduce the flame-spread like EPS foam. Here is a quote from the article on the site below.

"After a number of fires, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) sued major urethane suppliers. The FTC and the suppliers decided on a consent decree that had the suppliers pay for more testing and stop advertising urethane foam as non-burning or self-extinguishing."

http://static.monolithic.com/foam/fire_hazard/index.html

-Polyurethane, like EPS foam is a "combustible" material and MUST be covered with a thermal barrier per the building code. What is the fascination about being "fireproof" anyway? Especially, since you must install the thermal barrier.

-Mold, Insect/Vermin proof! Not exactly. Just like EPS, polyurethane doesn't provide a "food" source for mold, insects or vermin!

-R38: Other ICF products like TF systems, Hobbs Vertical ICF and logix are or can be made at very high R values. The R value per inch of polyurethane is NOT significantly greater than EPS.

-The cost of polyurethane vs. EPS is approx. 25% more from what I understand! Not worth the added cost!

-Engineering: Does that system come with engineering or do you have to find your own and pay for the cost of tuition of a system like this? Hobbs Vertical ICF comes with engineering as advertised and on their website.

-Less concrete: Hobbs also claims 40% less concrete which might be comparible to that system!?

-Where are you located? This company is based out of Alberta, Canada. Shipping may be very expensive if you aren't in their back yard.

-Are you installing yourself? If so, do you have experience enough for a successful installation? Does that company offer training?

Just a few things to think about.

Good luck!

Here are the things I know:

Regardless of the website's disclaimer, I have seen a video of a plumber's propane torch against the side of a block. It turned black, and there was an initial flash of flames, but it didn't change shape, sag or continue to burn! They must have added something magical to the blocks......?

Perhaps not mold, vermin or insect proof-possible wrong term there. I am not a sales rep or expert for this item, so I apologize.

I was not sure on the R value of other ICF's, but thank you for the comparison.

Not sure what you mean by engineering, but I would guess it does. The president gives a very detailed quote on every aspect of the build. I am still awaiting the actual quote for my house drawings

This product uses 50% less concrete for the basement 75% for remaining floors as it only requires every second tube be filled each remaining floor. It is windshear rated, and earthquake rated but to what extent I don't know.

They do train anyone, or complete builds, depending on my request

I am North Central Alberta, so shipping is similar for all products.

The difference in cost is substantial, so I need to calculate the difference between the added price for the ICF, vs. the additional concrete needed for typical ICF construction.


Thanks much for the info, I appreciate it.

I should know better than to jump in here.... but... does this product have furring strips? Incidentally, that's very important. What is the approximate cost per square foot of this product? In the ICF world there are many products that are 50 cents per square foot cheaper than brand X for and cost a dollar more per square foot to install. if you don't have furring strips then your passing this cost on to everyone else down the line. Regards.

I can only guess that furring strips are a screw strip? (Sorry, if you want to talk cars or motorcycles....... then you won't lose me every ten seconds LOL) If so, then yes, it has furring strips 16" CTC.

As for cost per square foot, no idea. I am waiting on a quote for an install, and one for product only. That will give the costs. And you are 100% correct. Just cause some of it is cheaper, doesn't mean that it's cheaper in the end.

I really need to have a similar presentation from a ICF rep/installer that the exocore rep gave. I had about an hour and a half one on one that gave me the opportunity to ask a multitude of stupid questions, with the odd intelligent one thrown in randomly.

So far everyone here doesn't have intimate knowledge on this product, but you have a great wealth of info about yours. This helps, and ultimately it will boil down to cost. They all seem quite similar, and a detailed search will hopefully bring to light any real problems with certain materials.

Again, thanks guys. Please if you think of anything else, don't hesitate to post-I have subscribed to this post, and my iPhone buzzes every time there is a response. I want to know as much about the product I am going to install as possible, before I install it.

Eli...... This exccore product you are considering should be reviewed by an engineer. The National building code does not recognize construction with this product because it is not a mono lithic wall. A building official should be demanding that you provide structrural engineered drawings if building with this product. I've been involved in the ICF industry here in North/ central Alberta for 18 yrs.... there is soooo much more I could type here.... I'd be really interested in speaking to you more about your project, and would also give you a quote for an icf foundation, or whole house if that is what you are looking for.....

.... I know this is short notice, Eli...... but this Monday, April 12, I'll be training a basic install course at the St Albert Inn using Nudura Intergrated Building Technology..... Let me know if you want more details....

Check your PM for more info

I am also new with ICF's but am able to make some observations.

In the website they compare their system to stick frame construction and show that it is stronger.

Then they compare their system to a "typical ICF construction" and show that it has a better R factor and uses less concrete.  Nothing about how their system is stronger!

Please print your quote if you get one.

My quess is that any savings in using less concrete will be lost on cost of product.

Jay

 

 

 

 

It appears to be better than conventional - and i would bet that it is -- but stronger than typical ICF it is not. Regards.

Jay,
You were correct, the savings in concrete was eaten by the cost of the product. Although not against the idea of the post and beam icf, I am thinking more along the lines of the monolithic wall-due to the master bed being over the garage. It will take less engineering and materials with the monolithic wall. Should another project arise for me, where I don't have this challenge, I might consider the exocore product again.