Insulating interior perimeter floor system / rim joist
Last Post 17 May 2010 09:30 AM by md2020. 10 Replies.
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md2020User is Offline
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06 May 2010 11:18 AM

For an all concrete home (8" basement to 6" mainfloor walls) are you guys still adding insulation to the interior perimeter of the floor system as we have to do with standard wood construction before sheetrocking?
This house is in Iowa where the winters can be pretty cold, maybe I just answered my question. I know it would not hurt to put it in,  I'm just not sure if it would be unnecessay overkill.

Thanks in advance.

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06 May 2010 05:10 PM
Posted By md2020 on 06 May 2010 11:18 AM

For an all concrete home (8" basement to 6" mainfloor walls) are you guys still adding insulation to the interior perimeter of the floor system as we have to do with standard wood construction before sheetrocking?
This house is in Iowa where the winters can be pretty cold, maybe I just answered my question. I know it would not hurt to put it in,  I'm just not sure if it would be unnecessay overkill.

Thanks in advance.

it would be a good idea, not overkill

Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
wesUser is Offline
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07 May 2010 08:45 AM
The floor system will be entirely within the envelope formed by the ICF walls, correct? That said, the insulation values of the walls at the floor system will be the same as the rest of the walls. Why add extra insulation? Upgrading the R values of the 12" tall floor system will have little effect on the 'whole wall' R values of the house. If you want to increase the R values, use a form with thicker exterior foam insulation.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
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11 May 2010 02:17 PM
Posted By wes on 07 May 2010 08:45 AM
The floor system will be entirely within the envelope formed by the ICF walls, correct? That said, the insulation values of the walls at the floor system will be the same as the rest of the walls. Why add extra insulation? Upgrading the R values of the 12" tall floor system will have little effect on the 'whole wall' R values of the house. If you want to increase the R values, use a form with thicker exterior foam insulation.
If we're talking about the edge of intermediate floor slabs, YES,  the thermal break where the floor meets the wall is a good idea, but may be difficult to implement.

If we're talking a basement slab, eat loss through the floor can be substantial in places where the deep subsoil temps are under 50F, or even with higher subsoil temps if the local water table is close to the slab.  In places with deep subsoil temps above 60F the thermal mass of the soil at the slab level can be a net benefit moderating both heating & cooling loads.  The R-value/thermal-mass of dry soil can be used as a seasonal thermal store with self-limiting loss, but with a high water table, not so much.

In much of IA  ~R4-5 of EPS or under the entire slab would likely be a cost-effective net-benefit even 8' below grade, but probably net-negative in warmer parts of KY.  Local site conditions can & will affect this balance considerably, and rules of thumb are to be discounted heavily.


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12 May 2010 09:57 AM
Thought we were talking about wood floor system between basement and upper level. In this case the floor system will sit on the ledge formed by the transition from 8" basement wall form to 6" upper level forms. Or it would be mounted to the inside of the forms with some type of ledger system. Either way, it would be entirely within the thermal break created by the ICF wall. Additional insulation in this area would serve very little purpose.
Dana- Even here in western KY, I recommend 2" EPS insulation under entire basement slab, on top of 6+" of drained gravel. (Clay soils and high water tables)
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
jonrUser is Offline
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12 May 2010 10:46 AM
Using this picture, where would this extra insulation go?

http://www.icfconnect.com/joist.htm
MDiverUser is Offline
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12 May 2010 01:41 PM
Based on that picture, i wouldn't add any additional insulation.
thagreenUser is Offline
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13 May 2010 04:22 PM
You are right about the extra insulation ,it's pointless. md2020 you made a very good choice of going icf so now reap the benefits and put the money elsswhere. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Good luck with the build.
QLUser is Offline
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13 May 2010 06:54 PM
agreed.
ICFconstructionUser is Offline
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15 May 2010 09:14 AM
I don't see the point of adding insulation. At the transition point from 8" to 6" you may have a very slight breach of the 2.5" of eps on the inside.
Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
md2020User is Offline
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17 May 2010 09:30 AM
Thanks everyone for your input, greatly appreciated!
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