Hello,

We just built an Arxx ranch home with walkout basement in upstate NY on a heavy clay lot.  We have already had water penetrate the foundation walls in several spots.  The water is coming from up high on the wall as we notice the water soaking through the horizontal drywall seams 4 1/2' off the floor.   We have not had water entering at the base of the wall.

Our contract called for Delta MS Clear, but our contractor substituted Soprema Colphene stating that is what Arxx recommended. 

After the first incident, I started looking back through all of my pictures and came across the first picture at the bottom.   You should see three rather large areas where the bottom sheet of Soprema is peeled back and not covered by the upper sheet, leaving exposed ICF block.   At the time I was told that they would and did fix this.   Two weeks ago I went out and dug up two of the areas and they were never touched (see 2nd picture).   These are the three worst spots and the side wall has several much smaller spots.  The side wall spots are a little different in that the mesh for the parging material covers the exposed ICF (see 3rd picture).   All of these areas are currently under grade.    Everywhere we have one of these issues, water has appeared through the drywall. 

Our builder doesn't want to do anything claiming that with final grading there will never be an issue.   He still claims this even though it happened two days ago while he was here finishing up everything else.  

At the time of the build we added @ 2' of stone prior to back filling with the clay.  No protective barrier was used to prevent puncturing the Soprema.   We have decided that we want nothing to do with the clay and are having it removed with stone being added down to the existing stone. 

We don't trust our builder to fix this correctly.   In addition to replacing the clay with stone, how should this be repaired?  Do the two different wall areas need different fixes?  Does the side wall parging material need removed or can something be applied over this?    What do you recommend to protect the Soprema?   Would adding Delta MS Clear in addition to the Soprema fix be overkill at this point (With the exposed web you can feel where the webs are at under the Soprema)?


Additional Info:

• The footer was formed with Certainteed's Form A Drain and runs to daylight well away from the house
  
• We have at least 12-18" of stone under the footer

During construction  Exposed ICF :




Current Close up of above picture:




Exposed ICF under mesh for parging material:  currently under grade




Thanks for your help!

Tom

It appears the third picture didn't get included:



Exposed ICF under mesh for parging material:  currently under grade - the black marks are Arxx exposed webs.



Thanks again,

Tom

Sorry if this is a dumb question. But from the pictures, the Soprema(?) looks like a house wrap product. It does not appear to be self adhering, and looks very thin. Please tell me I am wrong.
Now for a solution.
With the heavy clay soils, I would use a peel-n-stick bituminous sealer run vertically from footer to above finish grade. Then apply a dimple board drainage plane. (The one I use is applied horizontally, and designed to overlap). The drainage plane should stop just below the finish grade. Then backfill with clean wash rock to within about a foot of finish grade. Next apply a layer of 6 mil poly sealed to the wall and extending away from the foundation at least 2 feet over the rock. Finish backfilling and grade for positive drainage of at least 6 inches drop over 10 feet.
I know that the makers of the dimple board usually say that it replaces the rock for drainage, but with heavy clay, I use both, with great success.(Never had a leak in an ICF basement.)

Another question to ask is how is the water getting to the inside of the wall?  You definitely have some workmanship issues to deal with, but is there another problem?  Are the leaks under doors or windows above?

Bruce

Thanks Wes.  Wish we would have done that from the start.

So now that the Soprema and parging material are already on the house, can they even be removed without destroying the foam underneath?    If replaced we would have to tear out the siding as well since the parging goes underneath it, correct? Or would you clean up the area, prime it and add more peel and stick to cover the seam or would you add some sort of liquid waterproofing membrane?  Whatever we do to seal the Soprema, we then plan on adding the dimple board.

Thanks again!

Tom

Thanks Bruce,

Some of the leaks are under windows, but each spot corresponds exactly with where the waterproofing membrane is compromised and there is nothing but exposed ICF "protecting" the house. 

There is a slight gap between the ledger board and the top sheet of drywall in the basement.  I haven't seen any evidence that water from above grade is making its way into the basement.

Why don't you think that the underground water is forcing its way through these exposed areas?

Thanks again,

Tom

Posted By tomh on 20 Jun 2010 11:04 AM

Why don't you think that the underground water is forcing its way through these exposed areas?

Thanks again,

Tom

How is the water getting through the concrete core of the wall from the outside to the inside? Where is the path to the interior?

If it is showing on the interior at ±4.5' AFF, it could well be from poorly flashed doors and windows above, which would provide a path to the interior.  Honeycombed concrete or a cold joint could also provide a path

Bruce

The concrete inside the ICF will crack on its own, or you could have honeycombing or such caused by inadequate installation techniques. However, even the best concrete installation can crack, and if it does, it leaves a pathway through the wall. I would never depend on the concrete alone to keep the water at bay. The only foolproof method, is to give the water an easier route (ie: drainage plane, rock, etc.) Water will always choose the easier route downhill. BTW: even with formadrain, I would add additional drain tile to make sure the water has positive drainage to day lite.

There is too much water near your basement walls. There should be none. Get rid of the water through proper drainage and backfill and the problem is gone. You may need gutters. You may have water coming from somewhere nearby that must be stopped with a french drain. Only a pro at the site will know. Start getting pros their to suggest solutions. They must be good at clay soil and water issues.
aj

As others have pointed out, we can't tell all the particulars about your situation. You need someone on-site to do that.

However, we recently finished building our own home using ARXX and Soprema and the dimple membrane over the top. While I hired much of the construction done, my family and I did 100% of the waterproofing. We have had zero water get into the basement. In fact, it has worked so good that I haven't even had to install the interior sump pump yet. (Walk out design so the exterior footing tile drains naturally.)
I was told to install the peel and stick vertically and I can tell you from experience that to get it right is a pain. Everything must be cleaned perfectly to get it to stick. (including the sunlight caused oxidation on the styrofoam if it's been in place very long).
From your pictures, I'm not even sure your installation would rate as high as "sloppy." I'd suggest taking plenty more pictures to document his work.
Because of the need for everything to be so clean for the Soprema to stick properly, it will be challenging to fix it. You might check into the sprayed on type. Either way, definitely cover it with the dimple membrane and backfill with washed gravel higher up. The suggestion to add a second footing drain tile is a good one, also.
Good luck,
Greg

I'm in ustate NY and I almost allways use dimpled membranes. I have never had a water intrusion ploblem with it and never had a customer that I've sold an icf system to, have a problem with water. If we have a wet situation we will double seal the outside with liquid damp proofing then dimpled. Wes has a good point the water won't penetrate a fully consolidated wall. If the contract states Delta then tell the contractor to install it, because it will probably be then only way to stop the problem. I get a call every year about the same problem and the only way to fix it is open it up. Your drainage around the footing has nothing to do with the problem. The water infiltrating your wall it coming from up higher. With clay soils the water entering the ground is pushed into the wall before it reaches your drains. This the reason dimpled works, it drains the water to the drain system. About the only way to screw-up dimpled is filling the membrane with back fill or not puting stone on top of the footing under the membrane.

ICF as any other type of foundations should be backfield with free drainage materials to reduce the risk of water seeping through the walls.

As others point out, the membrane installation seems to have been installed by amateurs. I have been using the peel & stick type membrane for over 12 years now without any call backs except one. The excavation contractor had backfield with boulders & concrete chunks tearing the membrane resulting in water penetration.

Once your repairs have been done, make sure that your grade is sloping away from your foundation.

Another thing to look for if not already done is to make sure that all your openings (windows & doors) have been properly sealed. It is hard to know exactly were the water is coming from on an ICF building.

Several people have mentioned proper window and door sealing.  What is the correct way that  these penetrations should have been sealed?

Thanks all.

Tom