Please see below. I had to retype it so it didn't look like crap. thanks

I re-typed it so its easier to read

Below is a link to a floor plan that we like. I know its impossible to get an accurate price with out more details but please give me your best guess. The basement would be unfinished and there would only be the main level, not a second story.

The upgrades besides ICF would be:
-radiant floors in basement and main level.
-geo-thermal unit
-a concrete main level (not sure what brand yet)

http://www.designbasics.com/PlanView.aspx?plankey=12ae8e53-16bb-47c8-986f-1f25477c143e I appreciate the help.

Hello blavis,

I reviewed the plans briefly and they seem to be fine for an ICF project. That said the footprint of the house isn't given in great detail, but I think I can still help. By and large I feel that you would get a consensus around here that you should look to budget approximately $13.00 sqft (of wall area) for an 8" ICF wall and $12.00 sqft (of wall area) for a 6" ICF wall. That would be for a turnkey (labor/material) install, not including footers.

For a house of the size you are looking to build, if it were my I would immediately rethink the geo-thermal unit unless you can get it for about the same price of a high SEER rated HVAC (with the 30% tax break). A house of that size it going to be very tight, thus the monthly heating and cooling costs between a geo-thermal and a high SEER HVAC shouldn't be much...maybe $30.00 a month max (and that is a high estimate) Cost out both, throw in the additional month heating and cooling cost and decide if the roi is worth the potential higher front end costs.

If you tell us where you are, you could get a better feel of what you are looking at from a cost perspective.

renangle

Thanks for the sq ft estimates, it was exactly what i was looking for. I am going to be building in south central KS. So, you saying a geo thermal is over kill for this size of house? I will do some more research on a high SEER HVAC and compare local companies for prices. Again, thanks for the reply. It seems that these boards aren't very active.

Blavis,  We are usually about a dollar less here in Texas.   Several jobs in work now between $10 and $11 gross square footage.  Sometimes more depending on complexity e.g. poured arches etc.  Just completed a City Hall with 20+ different radii and it was over $14.   Historically, most of us don't throw these numbers around out there much but there was recently an ICF builder magazine article where I thought the prices were low even for Texas.   I think it's better to get these numbers out there because some of the other building methods have done well by saying "yeah ICF is better but it's way way more expensive" which is not always true a all.

Regarding geothermal.  I've long maintained that geo makes a lot more sense as part of the synergy of of a better envelope and etc.  For example if geo is 2x more expensive and you are able to buy half as much due to ICF, foamed attic, good windows and etc.  then it might make great sense.   Solar is similar but much more extreme in my opinion.  I would guess that every dollar spent on ICF, attic and windows pays for two dollars or more of solar.  Put another way, (joke) purchasing solar powered bilge pumps for a boat does not make a lot of sense until you've first fixed the leaks.   Regards.

Posted By blavis on 04 Mar 2011 11:26 AM
So, you saying a geo thermal is over kill for this size of house? I will do some more research on a high SEER HVAC and compare local companies for prices. Again, thanks for the reply. It seems that these boards aren't very active.

When I started designing my 2000 sq ft ICF house in early 2007 I considered water to water geo, then direct exchange earth source heat pump, and settled on a Daikin air to air heat pump. I dropped plans to do in floor radiant heat with in-ceiling radiant cooling. It all was adding up to big bucks and the house heat load calculations were coming in low. I estimated the Daikin would be about the least costly way to go for a heat pump system. At that time natural gas was about $1.10 per therm, and electricity about $0.08 per kwhr. By the time I finished the house and moved in in April 2009 electricity had gone up to about $0.09 per kwhr and gas had dropped to about $0.70 per therm, which is where there are now. At those rates the heat produced by a heat pump with a COP of around 2.5 to 3 during heating is about the same cost as heat produced by a 95% efficient natural gas furnace. A geosource heat pump will have a higher COP.

Reportedly new natural gas reserves have been discovered and are being developed and natural gas is supposed to remain in good supply at a reasonable price for many years to come. Now, the kicker. A natural gas hot air furnace installation is thousands of dollars less to put in than a geo system of any sort, and hundreds, if not thousands less than the Daikin system I put in. Do I wish I would have gone with a conventional NG FHA heating system with conventional AC? Kind of. But I love the system I put in and it does a great job of keeping the house warm down to 0°F and colder without resorting to auxiliary or back up heat.

I will be the first to say the best overall heating system you can put in is a geosource heat pump. But, in the next 5, 10, or 20 years will there be a payback for the additional cost? Hard question to answer accurately. Another thing to consider. In a smaller house that is very well insulated and is air tight, and where the overall heat load is modest, except for the small percentage of really cold weather, the heat produced by ordinary everyday living activities becomes proportionally a greater source of heat input. In other words, if the house is really small with a low heat load, your CFL lights, cooktop, LCD TV, computer, refrigerator, your body, and everything else that produces heat very well may supply all the heat you need. If so, then how would you feel about that $25,000 to $30,000 geo system sitting there unused? Probably not good. Keep in mind that almost all of the electricity that enters a home to power everything ends up as heat. That's a natural law of physics.

You have some serious investigation and calculations to go through in order to determine what kind and how much of a heating & cooling system makes the most sense for you. There is no pat answer, so don't bother looking for one!

I used a 5Ton Unico heat pump for both radiant heating and forced cooling (does both) for my 7300sqft ICF spec and it is perfect, I had big arguments with the HVAC guy who was insisting on 13-15Tons?
Also being forced air from the ceiling dust is not pumped into the air from registers in the floor.

regards

Jay

Jay,

Where do you live and what did you use to calculate the HVAC load for your house? I presume your HVAC guy was using a rule of thumb to come up with his 12-15 ton number?

Thanks,
Bruce

I had a company design load and didn't hire the bull headed idiot HVAC guy, we are on Long Island NY.
Have you heard of an AC system that can traverse either under the I Beams of the insuldeck or can be installed under the insuldeck slab above I beams?

Jay