ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 22 Jul 2011 12:53 AM |
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My newly completed insulated slabs ring like a bell....or ... maybe a drum. Stomp on the floor and you get BONG - BONG - BONG.
Anyone else have that?
Happens with both the insuldeck and the basement slab.
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Peter Jackson
New Member
Posts:29
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| 22 Jul 2011 01:52 AM |
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How old is the concrete?
My one year-old LiteDeck floors are silent with a four inch topping. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 22 Jul 2011 07:29 AM |
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4-8 weeks
Rebar or wire mat reinforcing?
And, when you say "four inch topping", the basic LiteDeck joist is 4" deep; is that a 4" slab over the top or a four inch "top hat" making a total joist depth of 8"?
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Peter Jackson
New Member
Posts:29
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| 23 Jul 2011 12:26 AM |
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Exactly. 4" topping on top of 10" joists (6" tophats) spanning 28'. There's one long bar of #8 rebar running at the bottom of each joist and wire mesh on top. The concrete was 3000# with standard 3/4" gravel on one floor and pea gravel on another. They really don't resonate at all. It's like walking on a concrete driveway. Also, I can't hear the surround sound in my living room while in my bedroom directly above it (DISCLAIMER: I'm 46 years-old and my hearing isn't the best anymore) I got the forms second-hand, so it's not like the EPS was pristine.
Does it sound different with different people walking on it? I'm wondering if what you're hearing isn't the sound of your boots striking the floor and resonating off the walls in an empty room. Of course I'm just guessing.
Insuldeck has those big utility chases running through the foam, but I can't imagine your slab insulation has anything like that. In fact your slab is surely completely structurally different, so could they both produce the same resonance?
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 23 Jul 2011 08:55 AM |
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so could they both produce the same resonance I haven't examined them closely to see if they both have the same tonal pitch. It takes more than walking on it to produce sound. Right now, you have to stomp or drop a big board or something. As one wiseacre already pointed out, it could be very useful if you have a bunch of guys over to jam and you have call to play the "1812 Overture". The downstairs slab is perfect for the cannon effect. BOOM - BOOM - BOOM. The CM thinks it goes away by the time GWB and floor coverings go in, but maybe that's just related to more cure time. Compared to your LiteDeck, Peter, the upper floor InsulDeck is a much thinner, lighter "membrane" with 3" of slab over 5" deep joists and #5 bar. That's 8" for mine vs 14" for yours. Total spans are up to 30', but it is broken up by ICF support walls and a 1.25' X 2.0' reinforced beam, which you might think would reduce the potential to resonate. This upper slab is currently in the open air; no walls to resonate off of, but you still get a good ring. The basement is just your standard 4" slab over 2" XPS and drainrock base like any other. The "Lord of the Rings" teen down the road says it reminds her of the drums of Moria; DOOM - BOOM ... DOOM - BOOM |
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Rosalinda
Basic Member
Posts:353
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| 23 Jul 2011 11:58 AM |
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Weird.... My insulated slab on grade does not make any unusual sound at all. If you drop something on it it sounds like something hitting something solid - no drum or ringing. I can't imagine how you could get sound resonating from the basement floor, though hopefully someone like Dana or Jonr will come along and explain how the sound waves generated in the floor are transferring to the structure creating the drum effect. I wonder if once the structure is complete, such sound waves will be absorbed by the rest of the structure damping the sound, or if you will have a house you can play like a drum.
-Rosalinda |
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| Sum total of my experience - Designed, GCed and built my own home, hybrid - stick built & modular on FPSF. 2798 ft2 2 story, propane fired condensing HWH DIY designed and installed radiant heat in GF. $71.20/ft2 completely furnished and finished, 5Star plus eStar rated and NAHB Gold certified |
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insuldeckflorida
Basic Member
Posts:158
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| 25 Jul 2011 11:16 AM |
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i am the insuldeck rep for the south east, and also live in an icf house with slab on grade, second floors, patio, as well as all roofs insuldeck with 3000 psi concrete 3" slabs.
there are different types of sound transmission measured and rated with all types of building methods.
for airborne sound ASTM E 90 was performed as a standard test.
insuldeck has achieved a rating ranging from STC 46 to STC 53 depending on the amount and type of drywall used on the ceiling.
for impact sound the ASTM E1007-04 standard test method was used.
depending on the covering on the floor FIIC 26 was measured with bear concrete floors, and FIIC 70 was achieved with 5/8" jute backed carpet without additional padding.
complete test data is avilable from insuldeck, or simply email me.
[email protected]
[email protected]
insuldeck performs very similar to conventionally formed concrete floors, ie the thicker the concrete slab, the more airborne sound is reduced. this is also affected by floor coverings and furniture, as well as openings in the walls from room to room, or stairwells, shafts and chases from floor to floor.
for impact sound transmission impact dampening floor materials are the best way of reducing the noise level.
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Jerry D. Coombs, PE
Basic Member
Posts:138
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| 27 Jul 2011 09:35 AM |
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The original post is about stomping on it for the noise issue. That's not a transmission issue, it's a resonance issue. It's the slab resonating at a frequency in the audible range.
To a great extent, the longer the span, the more likely the audible frequency (with this sort of slab) but it's also a factor of the geometry of the stem/ slab. You've just been **lucky** enough to hit the right combination. :o( |
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Jerry D. Coombs, P.E.<br>Coombs Engineering, P.C.<br>
<br>You can have with quality; You can have it fast; You can have it cheap.
Pick any two. |
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jonr
Senior Member
Posts:5341
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| 27 Jul 2011 11:11 AM |
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I agree, and at this point, detuning it is probably not feasible. |
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Jerry D. Coombs, PE
Basic Member
Posts:138
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| 27 Jul 2011 11:43 AM |
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It can be tuned, but not easily. Comes down to, "How important is it?" |
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Jerry D. Coombs, P.E.<br>Coombs Engineering, P.C.<br>
<br>You can have with quality; You can have it fast; You can have it cheap.
Pick any two. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 28 Jul 2011 12:32 AM |
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We have been experimenting by scattering materials such as bracing and scrap lumber around the slabs. They damp down much of the ring and we expect that the furniture, floor coverings and appliances will serve the same function once installed. We have also found that the the ring is getting less over time. First guess is that the slab continues to cure. You can FEEL less vibration when you stomp now in addition to hearing less. |
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Jerry D. Coombs, PE
Basic Member
Posts:138
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| 28 Jul 2011 08:38 AM |
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Correct on both premises. I expect the furniture, etc., will take out almost all of the perception of it. Also, as it's curing, it's cracking (don't worry; they're tiny cracks and it's supposed to). Picture a tuning fork (or a bell) with a crack in it. Changes things a lot. If it's still there in 6 months, get back with us... |
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Jerry D. Coombs, P.E.<br>Coombs Engineering, P.C.<br>
<br>You can have with quality; You can have it fast; You can have it cheap.
Pick any two. |
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insuldeckflorida
Basic Member
Posts:158
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| 28 Jul 2011 10:51 AM |
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jerry
when i built my 2 story house i noticed some floor resonance when dropping tools or dragging scaffolding around the structure. also a lot of in-room echo. now that we have drywall, doors, windows, carpets and furniture in the rooms that all seems to have vanished. a hard stomp with a heel, or dropping a heavy object is just a thump now, below and in the room.
peter
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