easytim
New Member
Posts:7
 |
| 31 Jan 2012 11:55 PM |
|
I'm wanting to build a Florida home 2400 sq ft the entire home will have ICF walls, what is the extra cost of doing ICF construction compared to regular concrete blocks covered with stucco
Thanks Tim |
|
|
|
|
|
|
easytim
New Member
Posts:7
|
| 01 Feb 2012 11:13 AM |
|
I'm in Cape Coral, Florida --------- zip code 33922 |
|
|
|
|
Donnerwetter
Basic Member
Posts:100
|
| 01 Feb 2012 10:48 PM |
|
easytim
The International Builder's Show will be in Orlando FL on Feb. 8th - 11th, 2012. One can choose from many options there. The fact that you have considered an alternative option (such as an ICF - regardless of brand), speaks volumes. In the name of this industry; I invite you to attend. The building of your home is a major investment - and your D.D. by taking the time to visit this Forum speaks volumes.
In highest respect
Isomax-terrasol.eu
|
|
|
|
|
Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
|
| 01 Feb 2012 11:03 PM |
|
I plan to attend the International Builders's Show in Orlando to see the exhibits as usual. I find that attending this show and the SEBC show provides a good opportunity to meet other people with similar interest. Call or e-mail me if anyone from this forum plans to attend. Maybe we can get together. It is nice to meet the people that are a part of this forum. I have already met some during previous shows. |
|
Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
|
|
Baldwin2014
Basic Member
Posts:123
|
| 02 Feb 2012 12:13 PM |
|
i just did a rough calc - you are looking at approximately 250,000 all in excluding the land... cmu would definitely not be cheaper... |
|
|
|
|
LovingMyICFhome
New Member
Posts:3
|
| 06 Feb 2012 10:31 AM |
|
I know you can email your building plans to [email protected] to get a fast (and free) material estimate. You can then get it priced by a local distributor for a true cost, to compare to CMU construction. |
|
|
|
|
orlandoicf
New Member
Posts:26
|
| 24 Feb 2012 11:27 AM |
|
Tim - has your question on costs been answered? Hopefully so. if not yet satisfied, drop me a note and let's discuss [email protected] |
|
|
|
|
Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
|
| 24 Feb 2012 11:35 AM |
|
Mind you, a minimalist ICF is more than 2x code on R values for Florida, but unless you bump the performance of the roof and windows similarly, much of that advantage is lost.
For a stucco finished exterior, SCIP might a better, more flexible approach than ICF in FL. By virtue of providing more interior thermal mass, an R12 SCIP may even outperform a higher-R ICF in an FL climate (but not by so much that you should pay extra for it.)
|
|
|
|
|
Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
|
| 24 Feb 2012 06:18 PM |
|
Ballpark would be $8 - $12 per square foot of wall space, including window areas. This would be the whole thing; ICF block, rebar, concrete, labor, 6" concrete pour. Being that you are in high wind, tornado, hurricane, termite, wood rot state of Florida, ICF is a great choice. I would avoid wood.  Don't skimp on the roof as that is the Achilles Heel of homes. Go with steel SIPs or ICF concrete roof if you can afford it $$. SCIP is also an alternative but remember you will NOT have interior drywall. That means if your wife wants to go to Lowe's and paint the interior perimeter SCIP walls with latex paint, it AIN'T going to happen. If you forget to run an electrical line, you might was well forget about trying to run it later. No way are you going to rip open the concrete wall and try to cut apart all the metal wire trusses in wall, that is a nightmare. Hanging paintings, kitchen cabinets, etc., will pose another challenge altogether as you don't have the 8" O.C. web ties in the wall to anchor into. SCIP is very strong but like any alternative building technique, it has its PROS and CONS, just like ICF does. |
|
|
|
|
ICFcoatings
New Member
Posts:61
|
| 25 Feb 2012 08:23 AM |
|
ICF homes are the best and using StuccoMax and green alternative to drywall, PlasterMax makes it an even better investment especially due to the hurricane/wind potentials.
|
|
|
|
|
Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
|
| 28 Feb 2012 03:45 PM |
|
Lbear: You can run standard hard-plasters on SCIP, on which latex & acrylic paints work just fine. The key to getting good results is to use a quality latex-acryilic primer. After that you can paint it with just about any color-coat. |
|
|
|
|
Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
|
| 28 Feb 2012 03:56 PM |
|
Posted By Dana1 on 28 Feb 2012 03:45 PM
Lbear: You can run standard hard-plasters on SCIP, on which latex & acrylic paints work just fine. The key to getting good results is to use a quality latex-acryilic primer. After that you can paint it with just about any color-coat.
In the end you are still putting latex paint onto a grooved concrete surface. It is not as easy as painting drywall with latex paint. |
|
|
|
|
Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
|
| 28 Feb 2012 06:09 PM |
|
Posted By Lbear on 28 Feb 2012 03:56 PM
Posted By Dana1 on 28 Feb 2012 03:45 PM
Lbear: You can run standard hard-plasters on SCIP, on which latex & acrylic paints work just fine. The key to getting good results is to use a quality latex-acryilic primer. After that you can paint it with just about any color-coat.
In the end you are still putting latex paint onto a grooved concrete surface. It is not as easy as painting drywall with latex paint.
No, your putting plaster on the grooved concrete surface, and the latex on hard-troweled ultra-smooth plaster. |
|
|
|
|
Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
|
| 28 Feb 2012 06:53 PM |
|
Posted By Dana1 on 28 Feb 2012 06:09 PM
No, your putting plaster on the grooved concrete surface, and the latex on hard-troweled ultra-smooth plaster.
I stand corrected, I was not aware that they plaster the interior walls as part of a SCIP build. Is this the "norm" with SCIP interiors? |
|
|
|
|
Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
|
| 28 Feb 2012 07:31 PM |
|
The quotes that I have seen recently for SCIPs include stucco outside and plaster inside. The quotes are averaging about $15 per square foot of wall for multiple levels. Simple homes with only one storey might be even less. This price may be higher than ICF but it does include finished stuccoed walls. Finishes other than stucco would be at an additional cost. |
|
Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
|
|
Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
|
| 29 Feb 2012 10:22 AM |
|
Posted By Lbear on 28 Feb 2012 06:53 PM
Posted By Dana1 on 28 Feb 2012 06:09 PM
No, your putting plaster on the grooved concrete surface, and the latex on hard-troweled ultra-smooth plaster.
I stand corrected, I was not aware that they plaster the interior walls as part of a SCIP build. Is this the "norm" with SCIP interiors?
Yup! It's usually the simplest & cheapest interior finish option, but I'm sure if you wanted decorative stone or colored cement something there are contractors that would accomodate. |
|
|
|
|
robinnc
Advanced Member
Posts:586
|
| 29 Feb 2012 11:20 PM |
|
Can you build a SCIP house with a crawl space? Also, I'm not an engineer(wish the h@ll I was!), but how does a wall with only 2" of concrete on each side with 5 1/2" of foam in between hold up a roof or second floor? I know the foam has webbing on each side that the 2" of concrete adherers to. Does this provide all the support needed?
|
|
|
|
|
Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
|
| 01 Mar 2012 06:18 AM |
|
Yes, you can build a SCIP house with a crawl space. This would be the same as using SCIP walls to support a second floor. The SCIP panels should rest on the footer and not the floor if the house has a crawl space. By doing this the floor can be wood or concrete. By resting the wall panels on the footer, the walls will insulate the edges of the floor. A house with a slab floor could have the wall panels resting on the slab but this method would not insulate edges of the slab. SCIP can also be used for basements that are backfilled. As usual, this system like some others, will need to be engineered for each building. There is no problem about the walls being strong enough to resist the wind and hold up the roof. In fact, some SCIP systems use only 4" of EPS and one inch of high strength shotcrete on each side for above grade one-storey homes. Other systems such as SABS by StrataUS use only 1/2" of premix on each side without any steel reinforcing. SCIP homes usually have wire mesh on both sides and rebar where needed for lintels and beams. See JRobicheaux's blog http://waterfrontbuildinginpanamacity.blogspot.com/ (Jim posts to GBT.) I have used only the Insteel (now called Tridipanel) SCIP system. However, I am somewhat familiar with the Met-Rock system as built by Envirolast of Columbia, SC and the Gulf Concrete Technology system of Long Beach, MS. In the near future, a new system may be on the market that is a hybrid ICF and SCIP system. The Italian manufacturer is looking for manufacturers/distributors in America now. I have seen this system and it basically consists of a concrete core with EPS on both sides and then shotcrete over wire mesh. The big advantage to this system is that more strength can be dialed into it through the reinforced concrete core. |
|
Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
|
|
Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
|
| 01 Mar 2012 01:49 PM |
|
Posted By Alton on 01 Mar 2012 06:18 AM
There is no problem about the walls being strong enough to resist the wind and hold up the roof. In fact, some SCIP systems use only 4" of EPS and one inch of high strength shotcrete on each side for above grade one-storey homes. Other systems such as SABS by StrataUS use only 1/2" of premix on each side without any steel reinforcing. SCIP homes usually have wire mesh on both sides and rebar where needed for lintels and beams. See JRobicheaux's blog http://waterfrontbuildinginpanamacity.blogspot.com/ (Jim posts to GBT.)
I have used only the Insteel (now called Tridipanel) SCIP system. However, I am somewhat familiar with the Met-Rock system as built by Envirolast of Columbia, SC and the Gulf Concrete Technology system of Long Beach, MS.
In the near future, a new system may be on the market that is a hybrid ICF and SCIP system. The Italian manufacturer is looking for manufacturers/distributors in America now. I have seen this system and it basically consists of a concrete core with EPS on both sides and then shotcrete over wire mesh. The big advantage to this system is that more strength can be dialed into it through the reinforced concrete core.
Alton - Which do you think is the "stronger" structure; a SCIP with 5"EPS and 2" of shotcrete on both sides or a ICF with a 6" concrete core with rebar? |
|
|
|
|
Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
|
| 01 Mar 2012 02:58 PM |
|
That question can not be answered very easily without knowing the exact detailing in each wall and then the answer should come from a structural engineer that is very familiar with both systems. Both systems readily lend themselves to reinforcing steel (rebar).
Shotcreting and gunite are just different ways of placing concrete. But the method of placement can affect strength. For example, not vibrating CIP walls can result in voids which can reduce strength. SCIP walls do not need vibrating since the method of delivery and troweling compacts the mix.
Each brand of SCIP has its own specifications, that is, size and spacing of wire trusses and wire mesh. Size and spacing of the wire members can greatly determine how much composite action results in the SCIP shotcreted panel. The various brands of SCIPs that I have seen would still not generate as much composite action as a cast-in-place (CIP) wall with the EASI-Wall insert nor would they have as good an R-value with the same amount of EPS. But in my opinion, the differences would not be that much.
In summary, I would not hesitate to use either CIP, ICF or SCIP provided the systems were engineered to meet the strength requirements. Based upon recent quotes for my area for various systems, it appears that SCIP walls will cost less than CIP and ICF for a finished wall, that is, a wall with stucco exterior and plaster interior.
At the present time, I think there are more CIP and ICF installers available than SCIP installers. In other words, in some areas homeowners can not consider SCIP at all. I think we need more companies such as Envirolast that furnishes all materials and labor for a turnkey job. |
|
Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
|
|