Has anyone used both over ICF? Opinion? Which is most waterproof? Thanks very much.

I've used gigacrete stucco max. Worked very well. The applicators initially didn't like it because of change over the skim coat or hard coat. In the end it was ok. Durable for the thickness. Use a heavy mesh like the one recommended (11 lb I think) it will help. Most stucco installers use the bare min unless you specify or ask what they are including.

Posted By South Texas ICF on 26 Nov 2012 10:45 PM
I've used gigacrete stucco max. Worked very well. The applicators initially didn't like it because of change over the skim coat or hard coat. In the end it was ok. Durable for the thickness. Use a heavy mesh like the one recommended (11 lb I think) it will help. Most stucco installers use the bare min unless you specify or ask what they are including.

Do you think StuccoMax is better than regular/typical stucco?

Any negatives to StuccoMax? Did you install a WeepScreed?

Typical hard coat stucco, yes. Inexpensive skim coat stucco, yes. Weepscreed yes. Negatives, local availability, cost & installer experience. Could not buy locally, had to pay freight. Heavy mesh was not available locally either at the time. Installers are like an old dog, hard to teach new tricks. After some basic instructions and some hands on, they figured it out. Very durable. It didn't pass are 9mm test but it has not cracked and seems to be holding up very well. Traditional stucco is very moisture absorbent. The stuccomax is not. Expansions and contractions are what causes the stucco to crack typically. The water getting behind it due to bad flashing techniques, bad building designs and incorrect water management. Settling does not help any either. ICF construction helps the settling issues vs wood frame.

Posted By South Texas ICF on 28 Nov 2012 11:00 PM
Typical hard coat stucco, yes. Inexpensive skim coat stucco, yes. Weepscreed yes. Negatives, local availability, cost & installer experience. Could not buy locally, had to pay freight. Heavy mesh was not available locally either at the time. Installers are like an old dog, hard to teach new tricks. After some basic instructions and some hands on, they figured it out. Very durable. It didn't pass are 9mm test but it has not cracked and seems to be holding up very well. Traditional stucco is very moisture absorbent. The stuccomax is not. Expansions and contractions are what causes the stucco to crack typically. The water getting behind it due to bad flashing techniques, bad building designs and incorrect water management. Settling does not help any either. ICF construction helps the settling issues vs wood frame.

Did you mean that you fired a 9mm round at StuccoMax and it did NOT stop the round?

What is the point of the weepscreed if StuccoMax does not let moisture in? Doesn't StuccoMax bond with the EPS on the ICF form?

Yes StuccoMax will bond with the EPS when proper mesh is used. It is always shipped as most products are, some products you do not pay shipping because local supplier has built into the costs. Shipping factory direct is the GREEN WAY, you only pay shipping once, directly to your project and do not have to pay someone to store it in a warehouse and truck it to job site. Installers are like an old dog, hard to teach new tricks. After some basic instructions and some hands on, they figured it out. Very durable.
StuccoMax at 3/16 is not ballistic resistant. Ballistic resistance is at much thicker coverage. Water management due to incorrect flashing etc can always be a problem even tho StuccoMax is water resistant, installation issue not material issue.

I think it was 3/8 thickness. It may have been the distance, angle or backing material. It was a factory sample. My main concern was cracking and water resistance. Yes it bonds, but I didn't want issues with the inspector and if it did get water behind, it has a place to drain.

StuccoMax is not Ballisticrete, Ballisticrete is designed to be applied at 5/8 inch for level 1 protection. I am willing to send you a 3/4 inch sample to try if you would like. If you look at the specs, dishwasher test results(hard to beat for cracking and water resistance) you will find answers. see www.stuccomax.com for specs.

has it been tested over many freeze thaw cycles for building in MN?

Nobody has commented on Surecrete (which was the original question).  Any comments?

Chirp Chirp LOL think you have your answer.
Gigacrete is good the whole two pot water mix got the guys a little confused at first but was ok. Product is expensive and we are now moving to Permacrete as they have a wide range and also have pool coatings for my ICF pools so prob water proof.
Good luck
Jay

Posted By HamptonsICF on 03 Jan 2013 06:17 AM
Chirp Chirp LOL think you have your answer.
Gigacrete is good the whole two pot water mix got the guys a little confused at first but was ok. Product is expensive and we are now moving to Permacrete as they have a wide range and also have pool coatings for my ICF pools so prob water proof.
Good luck
Jay

Isn't PermaCrete Portland Cement based and therefore not waterproof?

According to the PermaCrete website, the system requires 5 or 6 steps, including 3 coats of sealer to help make it more water resistant. According to StuccoMax, it is a 2 step system and does not require sealers in order to make it water resistant as it does not have Portland Cement as it's ingredient.

How much more labor $$$ is one spending on having a crew come out on numerous days and do 6 steps? In addition it cannot be troweled on and must be sprayed on while StuccoMax can be troweled on.

From what I read, PermaCrete is just modified cement and requires the 3 applications of acrylic sealer to help resist absorbing water.

I think it has many different systems and a combo effect when it comes to the waterproofing for pools, you are right with stucco max it was just a double back method. The permacrete has waterproof systems and then spray sealer over (Goes very fast)
As long as you are using a sprayable product most are pretty fast.
Also depends on your finish and how smooth you need it, spray and knock down is fast but hand trowel and a little extra buffing is much more work.
The sealer was put on with just 2 guys with sprayers in 1/2 a day and it was 7300 sq ft house.
Hope this helps

There is also another product made by Syder-Hydro for pools and roof decks with some cool finishes.
Requires brown coat with mesh then 2 rolled on coats.
Had a little problem with the bonding directly to concrete at bottom of pool but got it worked out with them.