Hi. I am wanting some advice. My husband and I are considering putting in an offer on a building lot with a partially built ICF home. The home was started in 2009 (i think) and the investors ran out of $$. It has sat vacant and abandoned for the last 4-5 years. It has a walk out basement. All basement walls and ground level walls are in place and have been sitting there all these years. There are no windows, no trusses, no roof. Just concrete walls. Floor joists are in place and were covered, but the wood covering the joists looks bad and rotten. The basement has been framed in. A contractor told me he thought that the floor joists looked fine to him, although the wood over the joists would need to be replaced. However, he didn't know alot about ICF blocks and had no idea about them. There is some spiderweb cracking on the walls. Is this a situation I should run from? Or should I throw a low ball offer and see what happens. I really love the area it is in. I can see it being a beautiful home once it is finished...but if someone had to tear it down and start from scratch...it would be expensive. I'd rather just buy an empty lot in the same neighborhood and start from scratch. What do you think? Any advice and opinions would be greatly appreciated! I've read lots of helpful and informative posts about ICF block homes on this site and I've learned alot. Thanks everyone! Here is a link for this home with pics. http://canyonsideirwinrealty.com/98512170

You'd want to make sure the concrete was plumb and square and that the proper hardware was embedded to go to the next phase. Also check for proper drainage and utility access and verify that the walls and footing meet code. Is the building permit still valid and are there plans for what was started?
When you say spiderweb cracking is that on the foam or can you see the concrete in the walls?

When you say low ball offer, do you mean approximately the value of the land?

Posted By ICFHybrid on 10 Apr 2013 11:19 PM
When you say spiderweb cracking is that on the foam or can you see the concrete in the walls?

When you say low ball offer, do you mean approximately the value of the land?

ICFHybrid, did you look at the realtor web site? It looks like they're Durisol blocks, not regular ICF. It's hard to say what the spider web cracking indicates.

Christean, do a search using Google with the phrase "durisol site:greenbuildingtalk.com". Also repeat the search substituting Rastra for durisol. That way of searching works better than the GBT search box. You'll go bleary eyed at all the discussions that come up and you might actually find some info that is useful for you. These are not the foam type ICF forms most everyone on this forum uses.

I see it's a one acre lot. What is the county appraising the lots at in that subdivision? I'd be surprised if its more than $20k to $30k. If that's the case I'm not sure the walls are worth the difference. The trusses probably are OK, or at least most of them. If the subflooring was glued to the trusses you may damage them removing the subfloor. The framing in the basement is good only if it forms walls in the floor plan you like and want. Based on looking at one photo electrical conduits have been run in the walls, but the receptacle spacing looks scant.

If I were looking at this for myself, I'd be inclined to stay away. I'm not sure the value of what is constructed is sufficient to offset the cost of refurbishing it to usable condition. Plus, the blocks don't have the insulating value of regular foam-concrete-foam ICF blocks.

Other lots in this subdivision are listed around $27-32K. Our offer would probably be somewhere in this same price range. I was able to get the house plans from a friend (long story). I quite like the floor plan. I would make a few minor changes in the main level, and I think there is only one or 2 small walls I would like to change in the basement. The trusses on the property are a mess. The builder cut the bundles apart and sold part of the trusses when the money ran out. So, only partial trusses are there, the ones on the top of the piles look to be in poor shape. There may be some at the bottom that look better, but the rest is a gamble. There is no plumbing in the basement and that is a big drawback for me. We would have to use a pump for basement sewage. Also, there is alot of leftover construction garbage around and it would be alot of clean up. These are the reasons our offer would be so low. I'm going to call the building inspector tomorrow to find about building permits. It doesn't appear that any glue was used to glue the subfloor down.

I'm gonna do some more research on durisol blocks
Thanks

I meant to say joists, not trusses. I noticed the trusses in the photo look pretty much like junk. A truss is one item I would not consider using once it's been in the weather for more than a few weeks or months.

All the exposed wood looks rotted and needs to be removed. The plywood/OSB floor is totally trashed. I personally would not deal with such a mess of a property.

There are half built wood homes out in Arizona and the one I viewed was only 1.5 years old but the wood was so rotted because of the exposure, the house was only fit for demolition. Wood does not do well when exposed to the elements. It can get wet a few times during construction but that's about it.

No, I didn't see the realtor web site when the post first went up.
OMG. Durisol.
Does this lot have a legal residential water source?
Yeah, nearly all the wood exposed on the surface appears to be "rotted" and the members under are suspect until inspected. In any case, a reasonable person couldn't just go ahead and start to build on that even if you could guarantee county cooperation.
There also appears to be some question about sanitary service as well.
When something like this happens, and someone "runs out of $$", and can't get financing, there is almost always other issues. Those need to be identified and investigated.
At this point, this property appears to be a significant liability on the rest of that development. Assuming you can even identify a way to solve all the issues, the offering price should be LESS than the value of a lot. Assuming someone could post a bond that would guarantee performance on that lot, a fair price should be down in the region of HALF a lot price and there might even be an argument for getting it nearly free due to the costs of clean up and verification.

We would have to use a pump for basement sewage.

Do it properly and it's not an issue.

I'm going to call the building inspector tomorrow to find about building permits.

You'll want to make sure the permit is still valid or easily reinstated and that the development fees have been paid. Also want to see what portion has been inspected so far.

Everyone has been so helpful! I will be calling the building inspector this morning as soon as they open. The contractor that looked at it said that all of the wood on the main floor (including deck) would most likely need to be demo'd and rebuilt. But he said that he thought that the floor joists and the framing in the basement all looked good. It does have electrical conduit, but I was told that most of the receptacles have not been "punched out". I do have the original house plans for this home. I know this is a gamble, but maybe it's a gamble worth taking? I will let you know what the building inspector says. I may also drive out there and take a picture of the "spider web" cracking I referred to earlier.
Thanks for all the help

At this point, this property appears to be a significant liability on the rest of that development. Assuming you can even identify a way to solve all the issues, the offering price should be LESS than the value of a lot. Assuming someone could post a bond that would guarantee performance on that lot, a fair price should be down in the region of HALF a lot price and there might even be an argument for getting it nearly free due to the costs of clean up and verification.

I completely agree with ICFHybird. The value of the land is much less because the existing structure is a liability (in its current condition, it decreases the value of the land). The true value of the land is the market value of that land MINUS the estimated demolition costs of the entire structure and restoration of the site. If you are planning on anything but full demolition, I would do a lot of research prior to making an offer, including consultation with a structural engineer. Not all contractors and building inspectors have enough expertise in your situation. Five years of exposure to the elements can have a tremendous affect on a structure.

I contacted the building department. They wouldn't give me any specific info. regarding this property until I fill out a records request, which I will do today. However, when I explained the situation, the gal told me a good starting point would be to pay for the bldg inspector to meet at the property and do an inspection. She said the fee for this would be $50. I think this would be a good plan moving forward, and would give us some good insight at what we are looking at. I am waiting for the inspector to call me back so I can schedule a time with him.

Thanks so much for the insights regarding the value of this land/bldg. I am glad to know that a very low ball offer would be appropriate here. You guys are great!

And...this lot will require a septic system be put in and also a well . None of that has been done yet. There is irrigation water pumped to the property but no domestic water. This would be an expense for this property as well as all the other empty lots available to purchase. Thanks

Well, I spoke with the guy who gave me the house plans (it is a long story) and he told me that the ICF blocks are from a company called Endurablock. Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks

A good code official may be able tell you what can be salvaged but may not be up on what it will cost.

Jerome, ID has a cold semi-arid climate averaging less than 1"/month of rainfall. That would work in your favor.

That floor decking looks like it might be 1-1/8" Advantech. You might be able to read the markings on the decking from the underside. That stuff is tough and highly water resistant. It has a 300 day exposure "no sand" guarantee; however, that appears to have been exposed for way longer than 300 days. Removing that decking would be a pain if it was glued and nailed/screwed to the floor joists. If so, you would likely destroy the top of the joists if you tried to remove it. If the decking is still solid, you might just have to run a belt sander over the joints to knock down any high spots then glue and screw another 1/2" to 3/4" layer of OSB or plywood on top of it to provide a smooth flat surface for flooring.

Is this a home you will be paying for out-of-pocket or will you need to get financing? It might be tough to get financing on a project like this unless you can work out something with the original financing company.

Some of the lumber in the trusses could likely be salvaged for blocking and dead wood for use in framing the interior walls and roof.

If you purchase this home, you might want to consider spraying the exposed wood framing with a fungicide such as Bora-Care to kill any wood destroying organisms.

Wells can be a risky hit or miss affair and septic system costs can vary widely. Typically a lender will want assurance that domestic water, sanitation, and power is available at a site before they will entertain granting a loan. These are prudent things to assess even if you don't need a loan. Like ICF indicated, you really need to learn “the rest of the story” before investing in this opportunity…

Thanks everyone. If we decided to go ahead with this property, We would pay cash for the property. We would then need to put a roof, windows, etc. to stop any further weather damage. At that point, hopefully our current house would sell and we could refinance the property and get a loan to finish it. We would have to move prior to this house being complete, and that means a rental for us for a while. I don't worry too much about the septic system and well. All homes outside city limits have wells and septic tanks in this area. Our current home has a well/septic tank and it has been fine. Its just one of the things you have to deal with in a country setting.

Arkie6 - I don't think any of the floor decking is good. I won't even walk on it for fear of falling through. I don't know if it is AdvanTech or not...Even if it is, I wouldn't ever trust it. I will look for a stamp on the bottom of the decking to see if I can tell.

Thanks

Posted By Christean on 11 Apr 2013 12:51 PM
Well, I spoke with the guy who gave me the house plans (it is a long story) and he told me that the ICF blocks are from a company called Endurablock. Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks

If they are indeed Endurablock, they look interesting. They apparently are still in business as their website carries dates of 2013. They are located in Orem, UT, so the closeness of the home offices is a plus. The blocks themselves should still be in good condition and since all the foam is inside concrete it should all be good also.

Christean, check your private message box.

Standard Septic can cost you around $5k, while an engineered/non-conventional septic will cost you $15k. Does the lot perc for a standard septic?

Well pricing is all over the board. There are lots in Arizona that have beautiful juniper trees, spectacular mountain views but the land is almost worthless because the well water table is 1,200 feet below the surface. You can't drill a well and you have to haul your water.

Some areas are notorious for radon gas. If that house is in such an area, you have a basement that could be a radon nightmare.

Not all land is that great and due diligence goes a long way to prevent making a costly mistake.

Radon mitigation is not expensive especially in the building stage. It cost my son $1600 to have a 1800 sq ft 1961 era house done

Radon, septic and well is something I know we will need to deal with...but those are issues I'm prepared to tackle. It is pretty hard to avoid radon... It's everywhere. Measures to reduce radon should be taken with any residence whether it is an existing home or a new construction.