I have had foundations with Footings poured as a mono pour, in the past. Sometimes it is a pretty good application. Is the "mono pour" a good way to go for ICF construction? I could just have them do a channel type lock with a rubber gasket (for water intrusion) and call it good - but that is still a cold joint. A mono pour seems foolproof against water intrusion, but is it actually workable with walls in the 9' to 12' range? I'm in NW Washington State, so we get plenty of rain up here!

How about a shallow frost protected slab (technically no footing) and then a hydrophilic waterstop for the cold joint?

Mono pour is not for the light of heart, if you have an issue, correcting it during the pour can be a challenge. JonR method works very well

I do all my basements monopour. The first time makes you pucker, but it saves a boatload of time and that equals money in the pocket. The picture on the left is from a 9'4" mono pour with a walk out basement. One pour, one pump simple.

Posted By smartwall on 01 Jul 2013 09:37 AM
I do all my basements monopour. The first time makes you pucker, but it saves a boatload of time and that equals money in the pocket. The picture on the left is from a 9'4" mono pour with a walk out basement. One pour, one pump simple.

SmartWall, Do you have additional photos of that mono pour you can either post or email? I'd enjoy seeing close ups of the foundation , bracing, etc.

It's not really a system that I sell nationally, just for my customers here in soogy upstate NY. Since your in Washington, you might want to look at Fab-Forms' system out of Vancouver BC Not as good as mine {kidding} but still a good local alternative. The picture is small to keep the NSA from seeing what I am doing..

Hi Smartwall, and the rest in this conversation.

Would you be so good to do the same for me and email additional photos of that mono pour. Would love to see.

Have done mono-pours a few times, and it can keep you dancing!

Fab Forms does make a nice product called Fastfoot. One can work this into the equation and you are off to the races.
If one goes to You Tube you can will get an idea. Also go to their site and start reading Roger R. Some good stuff!

No dog in the fight,

RL

Fastfoot does create a thermal bridge into the center of the ICF. But I doubt it adds much to heat loss.

Posted By jonr on 30 Jun 2013 09:51 PM
How about a shallow frost protected slab (technically no footing) and then a hydrophilic waterstop for the cold joint?

I'm not so sure about this type of slab, but I'd use a hydrophilic waterstop for the cold joint, no matter what type of footing I pour. A hydrophilic waterstop is cheap insurance (and for peace of mind) against the smallest of leaks.

jonr, your a one trick pony every time someone mentions a basement it's the same shallow nonsense. Where I ply my trade, shallow foundations are considered junk. It's foundations for projects that I'm involved with because that's what people want.

crused stone a good drainage set-up and a waterproofing membrane like dimple that I use and you shouln't have a problem

shallow foundations are considered junk.

Now there is deep rooted nonsense :-). Do you have any data showing that this is anything other than outdated impressions (for code compliant frost protected shallow foundations)?

Posted By smartwall on 02 Jul 2013 09:08 AM
jonr, your a one trick pony every time someone mentions a basement it's the same shallow nonsense. Where I ply my trade, shallow foundations are considered junk. It's foundations for projects that I'm involved with because that's what people want.

For a walk out situation where you need to get below the frost, a shallow footing detail is a fantastic idea. They work, exceptionally well with ICF walls, reduce excavation, reduce concrete costs, forming costs, etc. even with the additional costs incurred with insulating the footing, and I feel it speeds up construction time as well

Chris - how do your building inspectors deal with 9.12.2.2 2) where it states that foundations insulated to reduce heat flow shall be dealt with as if they where not heated? (Alberta Code but yours should be similair.)
Like if you have an ICF foundation and you put insulation under the slab.

Do they allow f.p.s.f. at all? Do they require a minimum of 6' of insulation going out horizontally and perpendicular to the foundation?

Or do you just allow heat loss from the basement to over come the frost jacking??

Our rule, well the rule that I use based on a stamped engineered detail is for every foot short of the 4' (our frost level) requires 1" of insulation and we must go 4' out from the wall regardless. So I typically go 2' down instead of 4' and use 2" insulation 4' out from the wall. Most 'new' engineers to ICF are puzzled by it, but upon explanation and showing them the detail they approve it, Building Inspectors never question it, they look at it and carry on, either not noticing it or just familiar with it.

Where I am, the standard is a foundation, anything built on a shallow foundation is considered low rent and devalues your build. That's want I meant by junk. I believe the original question was about a basement not a shallow dohickie which is what you always bring up every time a basement question arises.

Posted By Chris Johnson on 02 Jul 2013 09:14 PM
Our rule, well the rule that I use based on a stamped engineered detail is for every foot short of the 4' (our frost level) requires 1" of insulation and we must go 4' out from the wall regardless. So I typically go 2' down instead of 4' and use 2" insulation 4' out from the wall. Most 'new' engineers to ICF are puzzled by it, but upon explanation and showing them the detail they approve it, Building Inspectors never question it, they look at it and carry on, either not noticing it or just familiar with it.

Chris - that is what I remember from one of the frost protected shallow footing manuals I have read. 1" of foam insulation equals one foot of dirt. It also had some calc's for the distance horizontally but going out the same distance as the depth of frost protection makes sense.

It's good to remember that the foundation is there in the first place to support the building. With the number of 6 and 7 foot deep foundations that I have seen totally expose and in many cases undermined with the flooding here in southern Alberta in the last week, I would hate to guess at the mess we would have if FPSF had been universally adapted. On the plus side, we would not have had flooded basements (;=).

Should shrubs not be planted close to a building if the foundation is the frost proof type with shallow EPS?

Posted By Alton on 03 Jul 2013 12:08 PM
Should shrubs not be planted close to a building if the foundation is the frost proof type with shallow EPS?

Alton - most shrubs would not hurt the eps but I suspect some may tunnel through it with their roots. It might help to put a commercial quality weed barrier over the foam. I suspect in most cases the footing would still be down 24" which is enough to support most plant material.
Over watering could produce another concern as now you have saturated solid that conduct heat faster an are more susceptible to frost jacking.

Posted By Alton on 03 Jul 2013 12:08 PM
Should shrubs not be planted close to a building if the foundation is the frost proof type with shallow EPS?

That is why I stay at the 2' mark, to hopefully avoid this issue