Hello, I am a concrete contractor form western KS planning to offer icf basements and have the old question of which block should I use. The majority of jobs would likely be 1200-2600 sq. ft. basements with 8-9' walls. We will likely pour strait off the truck unless a pumper is necessary. I've read the posts, talked to whomever I could that would have an unbiased opinion, and tried to make a comparison of some of the suppliers. I tried to cover the ones I deemed practical for our area and ones recommended to me but am not stuck on them. There are two main other icf contractors in the area, one uses Nudura, the other Superform. There is still a fair amount of conventional basements going up also. Here's the comparisons: Amvic: $20 per block, Bracing: $20 per brace per month, 3 hr. drive away, shipping: $1300-$1400 for truck load, Support: seems pretty good, lots of accessories to go with. Arxx: Tried to get in touch multiple times and they haven't gotten back, they are new suppliers and don't seem to have much experience with icf, 3 hr. away. BuildBlock: $17.18 per strait block, $20.76 corner, Shipping quote: $520-580 truck, Bracing: basically no practical option, Support: appears to be good. Fox block: $23 straight block, $29 corner, Shipping: no cost (local Menards) no brace rent option, Support: not sure about service. GreenBlock: $11.90-11.75 per (48"x12") block (the rep was doing some estimation) I would have to become distributor and get full truck first time. Shipping: $800-900, No brace rent option, Support: appeared ok. Logix: $14.75 per block, Shipping: $450-500, Bracing: $10 per brace, 3 hr. drive away, (1" nail strip) Support: Excellent, offered to come out and help start first job. Nudura: $34 per (96"x18") block, Shipping: $800 for half load (probably bout the amount I would need) No brace rent option, Support: appears to be good Reward: $15.50 strait, $16.50 corner for I-form blocks, $14.5 e-form blocks, Shipping: $780 truck or "$1.50 per form" Bracing: $2 per brace per day, 290 mi. away. Support: Appears to be good. Superform: info on this block a little old but not too far off. $13 per (48"x12") block. Shipping: $1950 flat rate per shipment. Bracing: no rent options. Support: Appears good. A few of the things that stand out to me are: Logix: excellent support, but narrow nail strip. Superform: can pour clear to top of wall, but expensive shipping. GreenBlock: I'm not too excited about having to become a distributer. Any advice you experts have would be very appreciated. Thanks Arlen

I didn't see LiteForm mentioned. Their headquarters is just north of you in South Sioux City, NE.

I used LiteForm for my basement and main floor. LiteForm was less expensive than other ICF options I checked into here in Arkansas.

arlentdc - I have used both Nudura and Super form as well as Logix. I'm not going to say that you would not be happy with any of the ones mentioned but Nudura is far and away my favourite. Its shipping cost can be somewhat less due to the foldablity. You are not shipping air. It is a reasonable sized block, has internal dovetails, has side window bucks but above all it locks solidly together course to course. Logix and superfoam did not when I last used them. Also I prefer that the plastic is covered with foam on the outside so as not to telegraph through to the stucco.

If you are just getting into ICF, try a few different ones. Once you have tried a few you will quickly understand what makes a good block. Anyone who has only used on style may not understand that even though the product they used served them well, there are others out there that are considerably easier to work with.

The worse ICF is way better then c.i.p. concrete or wood!

Every block is available to you, find out who is the stocking distributor of all the blocks in your area. If you deal with a stocking distributor needing pieces here and there will be helpful, returns if needed should not be a problem and most importantly is having on site support when needed.

Lowest price isn't everything.

Thanks for your input so far. We live far enough out here that there aren't distributors close for most of the blocks. Fox Block has the closest distributor (Menards) 30 miles away but considerably less support than some of the others and considerably more expensive. Logix has the best support from what I can tell; their manufacturing plant is only 175 mi. away and the rep was very helpful and was the only one of all that I called who will come to the job site. They would be the least expensive overall I think, and I would have a reasonable way to rent braces rather than buy them (maybe that isn't as important as I think.) The cons that I see on them is their narrow and non continuous nail strips, 8" spacing, and less density foam. We have some carpenters in the area that would likely work on these basements who are quick to point out the nail strips. Some of the contractors I talked to also acted like Logix was a little lower quality block. Amvic distributor is also 175 miles away, their support seams to be good, but they ship direct from KC and can't split a truck so its a set $1200-1300 shipping and their product a bit more expense. (That particular distributor tends to mark up their products.) Next closest is 290 miles away, Buildblock and Reward. Again good support by phone, (no rep on site support.) From there I think Lite block would be next at 520 mi. away with no close rep. and then nudura with a rep down in Oklahoma.
I guess my biggest question probably is does Logix's support out weigh the cons that I see with them? If so great, if not who's next? Liteform, Reward and Nudura are comparably priced with Buildblock just a little more. Reward, Buildblock, and Nudura are completely reversible while Liteform's corners are not. Nudura is working with a bigger block. Then there's superform, strong and old. Probably the least worries of ever having a blowout, wide nail strips, a bit of a good reputation around here, (though I think any block could gain that with good practice.) Is that worth the fact of being a littler more expensive, unfriendly shipping and not reversible. I realize some of these questions I will have to be the one to decide but sometimes one of you point out something that I have overlooked and it makes it clearer to me.
Also how important is brace rent? I can't afford all new $150-200 braces on the first job. Is that something a guy can make do with cheap ones (home made or simple design) and slowly buy more or better or is a rent option worth quite a bit?
Lite block comparison: $15.99 strait block, $25.20 corner
about $500 freight on a 1200 sq. ft. 9' wall basement
No brace rent really, affordable new and used braces. Disclaimer: If I have some of the facts wrong feel free to correct me. Thanks agian and I will continue to research.

LiteForm makes a knock-down ICF also. That is what I used. My cost delivered was ~$2.50/sq ft for the ICF foam and ties. With this system you assemble the ties and foam planks as you go. One size foam plank (8"x48") is used for everything. There are no corner blocks. You select the wall thickness (4", 6", 8", 10" 12") and get the appropriate straight ties and corner ties for that size wall. Ties are on 8" centers, but LiteForm also uses higher density foam than most block type ICF (Type IX 2# density EPS vs. Type II 1.5# EPS for most block type ICF). Type IX 2# EPS has ~50% higher compressive and flexural strength compared to Type II 1.5# EPS and has a higher R value / inch.

EPS Properties: http://benchmarkfoam.com/eps-properties/

The LiteForm ICF is similar to Quad-Lock.

Here are a couple of past threads on inexpensive do it yourself ICF bracing:

http://www.greenbuildingweb.com/For...fault.aspx

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/afv/topic/aff/4/aft/77250/afpg/1/Default.aspx

Here is a photo of my 6" LiteForm ICF wall near a window buck:

After taking courses on Nudura and Logix and also looking at Amvic 3.3, I decided on Silver Fox block. I liked the fact that Fox blocks are reversible and there are no left and right corners.

Interesting... Perhaps you took the Logix course because its the only not fully reversible block on your list.

As far as bracing why don't you take a look at Zonts and Zuckles from Fab Form. For about $1100- $1200 you can get enough pieces for an average foundation. I would use them if I didn't have so much money tied up in conventional braces

I am not far from you and I would be willing to help you get started with BuildBlock. I can give you a hand with bracing, or show you how to build a set on the cheap that will pay off on the first job. Message me if you want contact information. I would also be willing to come out and help on a job, or let you come on one of our job sites. Good luck.

I'm a retired masonry contractor from central KS. Am doing on more job out in the Pacific NW using icf's instead of concrete block.
Decided to use Buildblock after watching Joasis do an icf pour down by Perry OK. Support by Buildblock seems to be good. They
have guys that acutally do the work that can advise you. I solved my braceing problem at an auction and bought 20 sets of 8'
panel jacks. Not enough to brace my job but I found a place to rent additional braces in NW. The braces just for one job and I
should be done with the icf walls in June 2014. If you still need braces then give me a call.

I was glad to help. I will let a few guys know about your braces you are selling.

Those of you who are contractors wanting to get into ICF's, I offer consulting and on-site assistance to get you going, and can get you set up with BuildBlock. Message or call me.

Thanks for all your help and offers. I will keep that in mind as I get a little closer to first icf job. Thanks again.