tinsmith
New Member
Posts:6
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| 24 Nov 2013 10:49 PM |
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Hi, I have been a long time visitor here but never posted,so here goes. We have started our FIRST dream home in northern B.C. It is icf construction two storey 1300sq each floor
I have searched all through this forum to find some ideas on adding more foam to the exterior. But the topics always seem to wander when everybody states how well the icf performs already. Due to where we live where the furnace is running 7 months of the year, I would still like to add more insulation. With regards to the exterior finish it is still uncertain at this point. Stucco or hardie. It seems pretty straight forward if we choose stucco, just screw the foam to the plastic ties, and done. We have gotten a quote from a local stucco company to the tune of $54,000, and that was for being applied directly to the icf foam as well. I guess what I am asking is for ideas of adding more foam if we were to go with lap siding.
Jon |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 25 Nov 2013 12:18 AM |
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Posted By tinsmith on 24 Nov 2013 10:49 PM
With regards to the exterior finish it is still uncertain at this point. Stucco or hardie. It seems pretty straight forward if we choose stucco, just screw the foam to the plastic ties, and done. We have gotten a quote from a local stucco company to the tune of $54,000, and that was for being applied directly to the icf foam as well. I guess what I am asking is for ideas of adding more foam if we were to go with lap siding.
Jon
$54k to add more foam to the exterior and then stucco? If so, you will never see the ROI on that for at least 50- 75 years. To answer your other question about lap siding. This will give you R-10 and a stud strip to attach siding to. Here is a product for you: InSoFast |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 25 Nov 2013 01:28 AM |
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Some of the ICF systems have variable foam layers . Take a look at the Quadlock offerings, for example. Unless, of course, you've already put up the walls....... ideas of adding more foam if we were to go with lap siding Wood lap siding sounds like a lot more maintenance up there, and Hardie goes on better if it has a hard surface to screw to, so it sounds like you would be committing to furring strips. Don't they just glue on the additional EIFS sheeting? The stucco option sounds pretty attractive. |
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BrucePolycrete
Advanced Member
Posts:524
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| 25 Nov 2013 08:41 AM |
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Polycrete makes 2' x 8' R-Stak inserts that drop into the ICF cavity before the pour. They come in 2.5" and 4" thickness. Unfortunately, we don't service BC at the moment. http://polycreteusa.blogspot.com/2013/11/fix-it-anyway.html |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 25 Nov 2013 09:16 AM |
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Tinsmith - we are in the Calgary Alberta area. Our design temp is minus 32º C.
We used R50 for our ICF walls to calculate our heat loss and it more than works.
If you have extra money to put into the house, put it into the windows and doors. There is no need to add more foam to the walls.
Make sure the windows have at least double weather strip and preferably not wood. Stay with casement and awning.
We are putting Hardie on with 1/2" rain gap. |
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theInvincible
New Member
Posts:74
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| 25 Nov 2013 02:41 PM |
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that is big money. focus on windows and doors. |
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Dana1
Senior Member
Posts:6991
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| 25 Nov 2013 03:25 PM |
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Posted By FBBP on 25 Nov 2013 09:16 AM
Tinsmith - we are in the Calgary Alberta area. Our design temp is minus 32º C.
We used R50 for our ICF walls to calculate our heat loss and it more than works.
If you have extra money to put into the house, put it into the windows and doors. There is no need to add more foam to the walls.
Make sure the windows have at least double weather strip and preferably not wood. Stay with casement and awning.
We are putting Hardie on with 1/2" rain gap.
Just curious- the 99% outside design temp for Calgary at the airport is -27C/-17F, but if you are dramatically higher in elevation you could be somewhat lower, but as low as -32C/-26F? (The 99% outside design temp for Jasper is -32C. Edmonton's design temp is warmer than that.) It's true that when the steady-state R value of the walls are over R20, windows tend to dominate the heat load numbers. With almost any U0.35 or lower window there is a greater net energy gain than loss (even on the north side), but unless you have sufficient thermal mass to manage it, going with a lot of window area only adds to the peak load. In a N-B.C. location with 7+ months of heating season and effectively zero cooling season you might consider using both the east and south sides for passive solar gain but probably not the west side. The high east side gain from the low-angle morning sun is probably still welcome even in summer, occurring shortly after the overnight low, but not the late-day sun. Moderating summertime gains from south windows can be dealt with by designing in overhangs during. Yes, casements & awnings windows are a lot tighter than double/single-hungs or sliders. From a comfort point of view it's probably worth going to U-0.18-0.24 for all windows except where expressly designed-in for the passive solar gain aspect. |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 25 Nov 2013 06:51 PM |
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Posted By Dana1 on 25 Nov 2013 03:25 PM
Just curious- the 99% outside design temp for Calgary at the airport is -27C/-17F, but if you are dramatically higher in elevation you could be somewhat lower, but as low as -32C/-26F? (The 99% outside design temp for Jasper is -32C. Edmonton's design temp is warmer than that.)
It's true that when the steady-state R value of the walls are over R20, windows tend to dominate the heat load numbers. With almost any U0.35 or lower window there is a greater net energy gain than loss (even on the north side), but unless you have sufficient thermal mass to manage it, going with a lot of window area only adds to the peak load.
In a N-B.C. location with 7+ months of heating season and effectively zero cooling season you might consider using both the east and south sides for passive solar gain but probably not the west side. The high east side gain from the low-angle morning sun is probably still welcome even in summer, occurring shortly after the overnight low, but not the late-day sun. Moderating summertime gains from south windows can be dealt with by designing in overhangs during.
Yes, casements & awnings windows are a lot tighter than double/single-hungs or sliders. From a comfort point of view it's probably worth going to U-0.18-0.24 for all windows except where expressly designed-in for the passive solar gain aspect.
Dana - My numbers come from the Alberta Building Code Calgary 2.5% is -31, 1% is -33, hdd are 5800.
Edmonton's numbers are -32, -34 and 5400 hdd (bear in mind Edmonton is farther away from the mountains then Calgary. Also in most years parliament is sitting in January or the numbers could be significantly lower.)
Jaspers numbers are -32, -35 and 5500
I'd be very interested in some background to "window there is a greater net energy gain than loss". This might be on an annual bases but on a January day that has more dark then light I have a very hard time understanding that statement. |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 25 Nov 2013 06:56 PM |
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Posted By FBBP on 25 Nov 2013 06:51 PM
Posted By Dana1 on 25 Nov 2013 03:25 PM
Just curious- the 99% outside design temp for Calgary at the airport is -27C/-17F, but if you are dramatically higher in elevation you could be somewhat lower, but as low as -32C/-26F? (The 99% outside design temp for Jasper is -32C. Edmonton's design temp is warmer than that.)
It's true that when the steady-state R value of the walls are over R20, windows tend to dominate the heat load numbers. With almost any U0.35 or lower window there is a greater net energy gain than loss (even on the north side), but unless you have sufficient thermal mass to manage it, going with a lot of window area only adds to the peak load.
In a N-B.C. location with 7+ months of heating season and effectively zero cooling season you might consider using both the east and south sides for passive solar gain but probably not the west side. The high east side gain from the low-angle morning sun is probably still welcome even in summer, occurring shortly after the overnight low, but not the late-day sun. Moderating summertime gains from south windows can be dealt with by designing in overhangs during.
Yes, casements & awnings windows are a lot tighter than double/single-hungs or sliders. From a comfort point of view it's probably worth going to U-0.18-0.24 for all windows except where expressly designed-in for the passive solar gain aspect.
Dana - My numbers come from the Alberta Building Code Calgary 2.5% is -31, 1% is -33, hdd are 5800.
Edmonton's numbers are -32, -34 and 5400 hdd (bear in mind Edmonton is farther away from the mountains then Calgary. Also in most years parliament is sitting in January or the numbers could be significantly lower.)
Jaspers numbers are -32, -35 and 5500
I'd be very interested in some background to "window there is a greater net energy gain than loss". This might be on an annual bases but on a January day that has more dark then light I have a very hard time understanding that statement.
Window infiltration rates are more important then U values.
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tinsmith
New Member
Posts:6
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| 25 Nov 2013 09:57 PM |
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Thank you all for the response. We have already started the house just finishing the basement floor in the next couple of days. Then we are going to wait until spring to start again. We chose advantage icf blocks, they had the best price in our area, and I ended up buying several hundred from a building supply that was going to switch brands for 10 cents on the dollar. That's how we ended up building a icf house. It was always a dream of mind, down the road. Just came sooner than I thought,haha. Unfortunately with the lot we have, the front of the house will face west. And the much of the winter sun will be blocked by the two storey beside us. With regards to the window, and bucks looking at going with the fox buck, they are the same thickness of block and then the best triple pane window we can afford. But if money was no object,and adding more foam to the exterior was an option, was thinking of 2x4 vertically 24" on center with 1.5 eps in between but was worried about shear load with the hardie siding weight.
Jon |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 26 Nov 2013 09:55 AM |
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tinsmith -If I may ask - why are you waiting for spring?
If you do wait, what are you doing to protect the footing s from frost heave? |
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tinsmith
New Member
Posts:6
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| 26 Nov 2013 11:10 PM |
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We are waiting till spring because I'm building the house on evenings and weekends. While still maintaining a job, very short daylight hours as well as 20-40 below temperatures would make it miserable. I have filled the basement with the rest of the block for the next floors. Just have to hope and pray come spring. All is well.
FBBP what kind of material are you using for the 1/2 rain screen
Jon |
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 28 Nov 2013 09:48 AM |
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Jon - I used 1/2" plywood ripped to 3" for most locations. If I needed it a little wider around windows or at corners, I just ripped it to the width needed. I spiked them on with a regular nail gun. I also placed house wrap under the straps as it makes it much easier to properly tie in the flashing elements.
I used Cor-a-vents wall vent at the bottom or any place else I needed to vent the space. Convoy Supply is the dealer in Alberta but I think the have outlets in BC as well.
I assume from the temps you are giving that you are in the interior rather then the coast? |
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tinsmith
New Member
Posts:6
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| 28 Nov 2013 10:51 PM |
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FBBP
Thank you for the information. Will have to look into finding a dealer close by. We live in Fort St John.
Jon |
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