I am looking to build a 7,000 sq foot house in Rancho Santa Fe (near San Diego) plus a 1,200 sq foot guest house and 1,000 sq foot pool house. I have been researching ICF and have decided to move forward with it. We plan to have a VERY minimalist design, both interior and exterior. Main house: Single story. U-shaped with right angles, no curves. 12 foot ceilings. Concrete roof (I assume ICF). No wood/tile on top of that. Concrete flooring with concrete kitchen cabinets (other than cabinet doors). Concrete countertops in kitchen and all bathrooms. Concrete shower floors and concrete tubs. All internal walls concrete (ICF). But a good amount of large windows. 6 large bedrooms with en suite bathrooms in every bedroom. One large living room with the kitchen open to the living room. Large family room. Decent sized laundry room. And a large media room. Plus a decent sized foyer. And a 4 - car garage. Total (including garage) sq footage is about 7,000. Guest: Rectangle. One story. 2 - car garage. 10 foot ceiling. Kitchen. Bedroom. Living room. And bathroom. Again, minimalist interior (mostly concrete). Total (including garage)sq footage is about 1,200. Pool house: One big room plus a large shower for pool guests. 10 foot ceiling. Total sq footage is about 1,000. Nice stucco on all buildings. All land is flat and already graded. We also plan to go 100% solar but that is a separate project. Questions: 1) Recommendations for a great ICF builder in southern California? 2) Can anyone who understands this type of structure help me estimate the total cost to build? My budget is $1.1 million for the entire project. Also, I plan to use ICF for the roof but no wood/tile on top since I will place solar on the roof. 3) I was planning to use mini ductless to heat and cool the entire house. Good idea or bad? I swapped out my HVAC in my current house and it was one of the best decisions I made in regards to saving money on monthly electric bills. 4) Since I plan to build a simple house, I wanted to save money on architectural plans. So...I contacted a few online companies which sell ICF plans. They can modify one of their plans within a few days to match what I need and the total cost for all 3 buildings is about $8K. I met with 3 architects and got pricing of about $100k if they design all 3 buildings. Has anyone done something like this? Am I being cheap/stupid? Thanks

I'm not an expert, but I did recently finish a similar size house so I thought I'd give you my feedback.

I think you will have a hard time staying in your budget for what you want.  My house ended up being about $150/sqft living area, or about $115/sqft if you include the garage, covered porches and balconies in the sqft totals.  I was my own builder and I don't think anyone could have built the same house for less than that. 

My costs included a large portion of the design and labor done myself.  I only spent about $6,000 to have my own plans put into CAD format and to purchase the professional home design software so I could make changes along the way.  I didn't use an architect.   

All my exterior and garage walls were done in ICF, and the floors were all done in concrete (insuldeck), but the remainder of the interior walls were traditional lumber and sheetrock.  I would scrap the idea of doing all the interior walls in ICF.  Besides adding significantly to your costs, you will loose some space to the thicker ICF walls, add to the complexity of all the other trades (plumbing, electrical, heating/cooling), and eliminate the ability to make interior changes years down the road.

The roof could be done in concrete/insuldeck, but would only be practical if you have a very basic design.

There are a lot of variables that would make it nearly impossible for someone to give you a good cost estimate (foundation design/work for your soil, concrete costs, etc).  Keep reading, keep researching and keep asking questions.  I spent almost 2 years designing, researching and planning before I started.  You don't want to rush something like this.

Good Luck!

My budget is $1.1 million for the entire project.

ICF?. What would the benefit be? You're talking about 9200 SF of finished space for $120/SF in North County? Good luck.
Use a ductless mini in the guest house and the pool house. In your climate, the overall design of the main home in terms of heating and cooling and how little HVAC you can get by with will be the key. What are you going to do during a Santa Ana?
Forget all the concrete built-ins. They will destroy the budget. Standard cabinetry with up to one cast-on-place concrete surface and maybe a few cast off-site surfaces would be luxe.

Here's what I would try to ease the estimating hassle if you had to do ICF

1) Get it quoted with a 6" ICF shell and slab floors. Custom allowances for everything else.
2) Quote PlasterMax for all the walls.
3) Grind and polish concrete floors.
4) Minimal windows.
5) Big overhangs
6) Solar heating for pool

Hi danblake1,
I am not an expert either, but our house will also be a U-shape home with 5000 sqft livable space, a huge 4 car garage and extra storage room. Our plans are currently at the City for the approval process and we got the approval for the grading already. Before we've started planning, we thought that our costs can stay below $ 100 per livable sqft. being Owner Builders. The architect easily agreed with our thinking and a neighbor, who also was an Owner Builder back in 2006 and who has a 9000 sqft. luxurious home on 2 floors also told us that he built for $ 100/sqft. So we were very confident that we should make it within this price range while not trying to build a luxurious home and saving money by managing the planning, organizing and all the administrative stuff related to building ourselves. Either times changed along with prices, or subs try to fool us, or something's going different, not giving up, but we had couple eye openers until now. We bought the property in 2013. Let's not calculate this in the price. Anyway, so far we've spent $ 26K on soft costs, $ 3.8K on fees, $ 5K on permit fees and another $ 25K we expect on more permit fees to come from the City if everything will work out fine and no further reviews will be ready. And we still face more fees like dust control permit fees and who knows what else will come up in the future. So these are around $ 60K of costs only for fees. You don't see them in the house but they are there and they eat up your budget. We are in Arizona, but I can only imagine that CA is even more expensive. If I'd do it again, I would go first to the City department where they do permits and get their latest cost estimates of local building per sqft. (Ours did it when they estimated the permit costs for us - I think they get it pretty close with the numbers). Ask them, how much their fees for all the various permits are. This will give you a better estimate. It shocked us to hear, that the size of the water meter you'll need would make a difference of $15K for the utilities only. So we prayed that a 1" meter will be enough for our home instead of the 1.5" what the engineer at the permit counter estimated when she saw the drawings. We just got confirmed that 1" is enough. All I try to say is to get numbers as soon as possible for those things that are already fix like those fees. Then also know that a U-shape has much more wall than a rectangular shape, which will increase the price for ICF. Our estimate for exterior walls, including exterior garage walls, is $ 80K, and we believe that the contractor calculated honestly and fairly priced. We still hope and pray that it won't cost us more than $ 100 per sqft, but it will be tough for sure and we plan on doing some labor ourselves. This can look totally different in CA, so asking local builders who just recently built, might be a good thing to do. You're already planning to have a good roof that will match to the ICF construction, but you also want to have good quality windows to keep the great value of an ICF home. They are not cheap either. Anyway, good luck with your project.

From nd96 ********************** ********************** I'm not an expert, but I did recently finish a similar size house so I thought I'd give you my feedback. I think you will have a hard time staying in your budget for what you want.  My house ended up being about $150/sqft living area, or about $115/sqft if you include the garage, covered porches and balconies in the sqft totals.  I was my own builder and I don't think anyone could have built the same house for less than that.  My costs included a large portion of the design and labor done myself.  I only spent about $6,000 to have my own plans put into CAD format and to purchase the professional home design software so I could make changes along the way.  I didn't use an architect.     All my exterior and garage walls were done in ICF, and the floors were all done in concrete (insuldeck), but the remainder of the interior walls were traditional lumber and sheetrock.  I would scrap the idea of doing all the interior walls in ICF.  Besides adding significantly to your costs, you will loose some space to the thicker ICF walls, add to the complexity of all the other trades (plumbing, electrical, heating/cooling), and eliminate the ability to make interior changes years down the road. The roof could be done in concrete/insuldeck, but would only be practical if you have a very basic design. There are a lot of variables that would make it nearly impossible for someone to give you a good cost estimate (foundation design/work for your soil, concrete costs, etc).  Keep reading, keep researching and keep asking questions.  I spent almost 2 years designing, researching and planning before I started.  You don't want to rush something like this. Good Luck ********************** ********************** Thanks for the response. Was your house 2-story? I ask because you said you built balconies. I really plan a very minimalist-type design. One-story with no balconies or patio coverings. And the roof will be simple. Flat. Because I plan to put enough solar on the roof power the entire property. Also, do you know if I would be able to just use the concrete from the foundation as flooring? I don't think I have to use Insuldeck for the main flooring since I am only building a one-story. I do agree, basically, with your opinion of not making the interior walls ICF. I have looked at several houses made from adobe and all the walls were adobe. I would design the house to suit what I want long-term and would be ok with not being able to make changes. And I feel that it wouldn't make the house difficult to sell as long as the layout makes sense for most families. But yeah...I was considering standard wood and drywall. It depends on the cost. I was planning to use that if I were exceeding my budget. Anyhow, again, thanks for the response!

Posted By ICFHybrid on 24 Apr 2014 10:52 AM

My budget is $1.1 million for the entire project.

ICF?. What would the benefit be? You're talking about 9200 SF of finished space for $120/SF in North County? Good luck.
Use a ductless mini in the guest house and the pool house. In your climate, the overall design of the main home in terms of heating and cooling and how little HVAC you can get by with will be the key. What are you going to do during a Santa Ana?
Forget all the concrete built-ins. They will destroy the budget. Standard cabinetry with up to one cast-on-place concrete surface and maybe a few cast off-site surfaces would be luxe.

Here's what I would try to ease the estimating hassle if you had to do ICF

1) Get it quoted with a 6" ICF shell and slab floors. Custom allowances for everything else.
2) Quote PlasterMax for all the walls.
3) Grind and polish concrete floors.
4) Minimal windows.
5) Big overhangs
6) Solar heating for pool

Yes, I am pretty sure that I want to do ICF. I just want a house that I feel will be rugged and long lasting. Plus there is a high risk of fires in Rancho Santa Fe. And lastly, I hate the idea of termites eating my house. So, yeah, I feel comfortable with ICF. It may turn out to be a mistake, I suppose but I am willing to take the chance (as long as I don't exceed my budget too much). And yes, I know it is expensive to build in this neighborhood. But I have no choice. That is where my land is. Regarding the Santa Ana...I live in a house now that is 3 stories with floor to ceiling windows and 9 foot ceilings. It was 116 on the 3rd floor last summer and I turned on my mini ductless. 25 minutes later the 1500 sq foot 3rd floor was 76 degrees. It worked. I spent $18k for the entire mini ductless system (including install) for a system that covers a 7,000 sq foot house that gets crazy hot during those days when it is almost 100 outside. A total of 15 wall units. I have faith in mini ductless because if it works on my current house then it has to work on anything. Thanks for the recommendation on plastermax. I looked it up. I was hoping something like that was available. What do you mean by "big overhangs?" Do you mean covered patios? Also, slab floors? Does that mean just the regular concrete on the foundation to be used as flooring? I will need large and multiple windows..Not much I can do about that. I will just have to pay for it. And solar heating for pool? I plan to go totally off - grid with my solar so I plan on using an electric heater for the pool which will be powered by the solar during the day and covered with a pool cover when the pool is not being used. I am an avid swimmer so my pool has to be about 78 to 83 everyday. Thanks for the ideas. I really appreciate it.

It's quite ridiculous that cities/counties charge all these fees and basically nickel and dime you to death in fees. To charge a home builder $15k for increasing a water line by 1/2" should be a crime but it's the code and law makers that are creating these fee schedules.

With ICF walls one is looking at around $10-$15 per wall square footage, including windows and door areas. So if your home has 5,000 sqft of walls, you are looking at $50k - $75k just to do the walls in ICF.

Building a custom home is like taking a journey into the realm of insanity. If you can come out at the end of the project with your mind completely intact, you have done well.

Dealing with the city and county permitting department is one headache but dealing with the subs is another headache. I don't want to come off as pessimistic but endeavoring to build ones custom home is not for the faint of heart. Sometimes it can be a rewarding experience but be prepared for issues.

It was 116 on the 3rd floor last summer and I turned on my mini ductless. 25 minutes later the 1500 sq foot 3rd floor was 76 degrees.

OK, but what was the (shade) temp outside? What is the ductless brand and model you have?

I am just finishing a 6,900 sf ICF passive solar north of Seattle.

Big overhangs means situating the roof overhangs and the windows so that no direct sun can enter. In your case, you probably want that 8 months a year. At least. And you need to guard against reflected sun, too.
Where and how is your place located and oriented? You can have some big window arrays, but not everywhere. Not on all sides. And yes, they will cost you.
With ICF, you set the footings and then start building the ICF walls on the footings. Once the walls are poured, you pour 4" slabs inside, right on the ground for the floors. With your budget, you will need to minimize the number of "layers" that require materials and labor.

If you are doing Mission style, that helps with interior trim and maximizes the benefits of Plastermax.
Outside, you need to do the Plastermax equivalent, directly on the ICF, and any wood structure needs fibercement coverage at a minimum.
Your swimming pool will be heated by old fashioned tube collectors. Is there natural gas?

Posted By Rafi on 24 Apr 2014 10:59 AM
Hi danblake1,
I am not an expert either, but our house will also be a U-shape home with 5000 sqft livable space, a huge 4 car garage and extra storage room. Our plans are currently at the City for the approval process and we got the approval for the grading already. Before we've started planning, we thought that our costs can stay below $ 100 per livable sqft. being Owner Builders. The architect easily agreed with our thinking and a neighbor, who also was an Owner Builder back in 2006 and who has a 9000 sqft. luxurious home on 2 floors also told us that he built for $ 100/sqft. So we were very confident that we should make it within this price range while not trying to build a luxurious home and saving money by managing the planning, organizing and all the administrative stuff related to building ourselves. Either times changed along with prices, or subs try to fool us, or something's going different, not giving up, but we had couple eye openers until now. We bought the property in 2013. Let's not calculate this in the price. Anyway, so far we've spent $ 26K on soft costs, $ 3.8K on fees, $ 5K on permit fees and another $ 25K we expect on more permit fees to come from the City if everything will work out fine and no further reviews will be ready. And we still face more fees like dust control permit fees and who knows what else will come up in the future. So these are around $ 60K of costs only for fees. You don't see them in the house but they are there and they eat up your budget. We are in Arizona, but I can only imagine that CA is even more expensive. If I'd do it again, I would go first to the City department where they do permits and get their latest cost estimates of local building per sqft. (Ours did it when they estimated the permit costs for us - I think they get it pretty close with the numbers). Ask them, how much their fees for all the various permits are. This will give you a better estimate. It shocked us to hear, that the size of the water meter you'll need would make a difference of $15K for the utilities only. So we prayed that a 1" meter will be enough for our home instead of the 1.5" what the engineer at the permit counter estimated when she saw the drawings. We just got confirmed that 1" is enough. All I try to say is to get numbers as soon as possible for those things that are already fix like those fees. Then also know that a U-shape has much more wall than a rectangular shape, which will increase the price for ICF. Our estimate for exterior walls, including exterior garage walls, is $ 80K, and we believe that the contractor calculated honestly and fairly priced. We still hope and pray that it won't cost us more than $ 100 per sqft, but it will be tough for sure and we plan on doing some labor ourselves. This can look totally different in CA, so asking local builders who just recently built, might be a good thing to do. You're already planning to have a good roof that will match to the ICF construction, but you also want to have good quality windows to keep the great value of an ICF home. They are not cheap either. Anyway, good luck with your project.

What city are you building in? It sounds like a fairly comparable project for the main house. Also, maybe the costs for construction were less In 2006 because of the housing market collapse. But then again, that was around the peak, depending on where you were. I was assuming about $75k on city and county permitting fees, but was hoping they would be less. California is a pain when it comes to things like that. I also wish you luck. I am pretty sure that I will come up against many problems but I am also confident I can work my way through all of them. I will do my best to find the best builder for starters. And I plan to hire all the subs for the interior work. I renovated my current house and I found several subs from Mexico that did very good work at a very reasonable price. Plus, I plan to make my interior very simple. I care more about open space in my house than I do about walls and finishings. I will, of course, create a blog of the project. I expect to be 20% over budget, have dozens of emergencies, and the time line to be off by a factor of 1.5 ...let's see how accurate I am...

[What city are you building in? It sounds like a fairly comparable project for the main house. Also, maybe the costs for construction were less In 2006 because of the housing market collapse. ]

We are building in Goodyear, Arizona, about 25 miles South-West from Phoenix (downtown). I would think it's a comparable project for your main house. The costs in 2006 was peak time. We were lucky with the land, we bought it for $ 65K. Our neighbor paid over $ 300K at that time. No way we could have started this project at prices like that. I believe CA is an even bigger pain in regards to costs for fees. And I wish we had the connections to those subs from Mexico who are still licensed and reasonable cause this is what the City needs us to prove them, and to be fair, we want that too. Having had some real frustrating times with proposals from subs we just got hope with the AC system/installation. While my husband totally refused to have mini split systems, I was still researching a lot and asking the sales reps about it. Believe them or not, each of them independently said that they are working great, but too expensive to have them cooling a whole new construction. Since it wasn't an option for us anyway, I've stopped thinking about them. So we focused on the traditional HVAC system, but those knuckleheads of AC companies that have no experience with ICF homes or simply want to ignore the energy efficiency came up with way too big unit sizes exceeding our budget horribly (I had the one CEO from one company writing me back when I doubted their calculations and he tried to make me feel being the idiot, Manual J, blabla and many years of experience blabla...) . After the City required from us an HVAC design, we've decided to hire a neutral knowledgeable guy and we found one. He put so much effort into getting data together, working with our architect, truss guy, structural engineer and window data sheets and information from us about daily routines, that we are so happy now and ended up to have 2 high-end Lennox units for multi zoning (2 tons and 4 tons), 2 stage, smart ventilation and filter system. He also worked on our radiant floor heating design and is working on finding a control system for the heating and the cooling to be compatible and WIFI-capable. Yesterday I've forwarded the data to the guy who is doing the electrical calculations for City standards. He called me back and assumed a mistake in the size of the AC. I've explained ICF to him and I had the feeling that I've turned him into an ICF believer already :-). Any ICF home owner should become skeptical if he or she receives proposals for units that are equal to energy efficient stick homes. Then they just didn't have the right software for their calculations. We now are looking at complete AC/installation costs of $ 15K with no compromises to make. Before similar oversized systems with similar functions were between $ 30K and $53K. You can imagine how happy we are with these results and it gives me hope that it can turn out positively with other jobs too.

Hey Rafi - would you mind letting us know what R-value your heating designer used for the ICF when he did the heat loss/gain calc's ?

Hey Rafi - would you mind letting us know what R-value your heating designer used for the ICF when he did the heat loss/gain calc's ?

Don't know but I've sent him that question. But I can tell you, what a Nudura employee from Canada told me when I've called them out of desperation. He (I can give you his email address sending to you in private if you like) said that R-value should be doubled, R40, cut air changers by half, for example if you usually take 0.4, take 0.2 for ICF walls, the mechanical system should be at 40% less than usual. These were notes I've kept. But you probably also should know that we will have a great insulation for the roof and really great windows from Europe (that was something we wanted to have from the first thought when building our own custom home - I am originally from Europe and it's something I am missing most here in the US).

Posted By Rafi on 24 Apr 2014 01:41 PM
[What city are you building in? It sounds like a fairly comparable project for the main house. Also, maybe the costs for construction were less In 2006 because of the housing market collapse. ]

We are building in Goodyear, Arizona, about 25 miles South-West from Phoenix (downtown). I would think it's a comparable project for your main house. The costs in 2006 was peak time. We were lucky with the land, we bought it for $ 65K. Our neighbor paid over $ 300K at that time. No way we could have started this project at prices like that. I believe CA is an even bigger pain in regards to costs for fees. And I wish we had the connections to those subs from Mexico who are still licensed and reasonable cause this is what the City needs us to prove them, and to be fair, we want that too. Having had some real frustrating times with proposals from subs we just got hope with the AC system/installation. While my husband totally refused to have mini split systems, I was still researching a lot and asking the sales reps about it. Believe them or not, each of them independently said that they are working great, but too expensive to have them cooling a whole new construction. Since it wasn't an option for us anyway, I've stopped thinking about them. So we focused on the traditional HVAC system, but those knuckleheads of AC companies that have no experience with ICF homes or simply want to ignore the energy efficiency came up with way too big unit sizes exceeding our budget horribly (I had the one CEO from one company writing me back when I doubted their calculations and he tried to make me feel being the idiot, Manual J, blabla and many years of experience blabla...) . After the City required from us an HVAC design, we've decided to hire a neutral knowledgeable guy and we found one. He put so much effort into getting data together, working with our architect, truss guy, structural engineer and window data sheets and information from us about daily routines, that we are so happy now and ended up to have 2 high-end Lennox units for multi zoning (2 tons and 4 tons), 2 stage, smart ventilation and filter system. He also worked on our radiant floor heating design and is working on finding a control system for the heating and the cooling to be compatible and WIFI-capable. Yesterday I've forwarded the data to the guy who is doing the electrical calculations for City standards. He called me back and assumed a mistake in the size of the AC. I've explained ICF to him and I had the feeling that I've turned him into an ICF believer already :-). Any ICF home owner should become skeptical if he or she receives proposals for units that are equal to energy efficient stick homes. Then they just didn't have the right software for their calculations. We now are looking at complete AC/installation costs of $ 15K with no compromises to make. Before similar oversized systems with similar functions were between $ 30K and $53K. You can imagine how happy we are with these results and it gives me hope that it can turn out positively with other jobs too.


Quick question.  How can the AC be so different just based on the air handler and the compressors.  I presume the ductwork should all be the same.  I think you would just switch the 2 ton for a 6 ton in cost would be $2k-$3k difference.  Meaning, if you switch the 2 ton with the 4 ton, and then replaced the 2 ton with a 6 ton, I don't see a big price change of $15k to 38k.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 24 Apr 2014 12:19 PM

It was 116 on the 3rd floor last summer and I turned on my mini ductless. 25 minutes later the 1500 sq foot 3rd floor was 76 degrees.

OK, but what was the (shade) temp outside? What is the ductless brand and model you have?

I am just finishing a 6,900 sf ICF passive solar north of Seattle.

Big overhangs means situating the roof overhangs and the windows so that no direct sun can enter. In your case, you probably want that 8 months a year. At least. And you need to guard against reflected sun, too.
Where and how is your place located and oriented? You can have some big window arrays, but not everywhere. Not on all sides. And yes, they will cost you.
With ICF, you set the footings and then start building the ICF walls on the footings. Once the walls are poured, you pour 4" slabs inside, right on the ground for the floors. With your budget, you will need to minimize the number of "layers" that require materials and labor.

If you are doing Mission style, that helps with interior trim and maximizes the benefits of Plastermax.
Outside, you need to do the Plastermax equivalent, directly on the ICF, and any wood structure needs fibercement coverage at a minimum.
Your swimming pool will be heated by old fashioned tube collectors. Is there natural gas?

It was 99 outside in the shade. It was during the Santa Ana heat wave..late August. The brand is YMGI. I used to live in China and I know several manufacturers there. Their equipment is very good. I spent $15,500 on the equipment and $2,500 for the installation. I had six old compressors and got rid of them all. It also cost me $1,000 to remove and drywall over the old vents. The house looks so much nicer now without those vents. I also don't plan to build any roof overhangs. The house design is very basic. Just a one story U-shaped house with a flat roof. In that area, we need a/c about 40 days per year max. Since the house will be totally off-grid I don't mind running the air more often. I expect to use a similar mini ductless system like I have in my current house. Both main houses would be the same square footage. I also don't expect to use natural gas. I expect everything to be electric since that won't cost anything once I have the off-grid solar. Especially an electric pool heater instead of gas. Lastly, I am guessing about $125-150k for windows and doors.

My ultimate goal would be to build all 3 buildings (main house, guest house and pool house) in a style which perfectly resembles a southwest adobe with stucco design. The exterior walls would be about 3 feet above the flat roof to hide the solar panels on the roof. Has anyone known of or done such an exterior on ICF? I would want there to be no discernable difference between my ICF exterior with stucco and an adobe with smooth clay colored stucco. I am meeting with an ICF builder this weekend to see if they can do this. They claim it is possible and that they have already done it with fox blocks and that it looks exactly the same as stucco over adobe..but we will see...

Quick question. How can the AC be so different just based on the air handler and the compressors.

@ ba_icf: Quick answer: It's obvious that it's not just the unit sizes or the third unit to make it 10 tons in total (which was also proposed) that made the other proposals so much higher, but AC companies (and other subs) will take advantage of an "unknowledgeable" Owner Builder making them believe that this is what they'll need and what it costs. They don't break down the prices so that you would know what exactly is behind the price. I believe that's what you wanted to hear ;-) .

Posted By ba_icf on 24 Apr 2014 08:01 PM
We are building in Goodyear, Arizona, about 25 miles South-West from Phoenix (downtown). I would think it's a comparable project for your main house. The costs in 2006 was peak time. We were lucky with the land, we bought it for $ 65K. Our neighbor paid over $ 300K at that time. No way we could have started this project at prices like that. I believe CA is an even bigger pain in regards to costs for fees. And I wish we had the connections to those subs from Mexico who are still licensed and reasonable cause this is what the City needs us to prove them, and to be fair, we want that too. Having had some real frustrating times with proposals from subs we just got hope with the AC system/installation. While my husband totally refused to have mini split systems, I was still researching a lot and asking the sales reps about it. Believe them or not, each of them independently said that they are working great, but too expensive to have them cooling a whole new construction. Since it wasn't an option for us anyway, I've stopped thinking about them.

Can you share what your total projected cost is for the house (interior and exterior)? Also, I can just go on my personal experience: I feel that mini ductless is easy to install; cheap to purchase; very efficient; good at cooling; and better looking than vents in your ceiling. You can purchase and install for about $3k per 1,000 sq feet. And no permits.

Dan - we have done a number of raised parapets on ICF buildings, so that is no problem. One car dealership, we raised the outside wall 8' above the roof to provide an enclosed patio for the staff right off their lunch room. We finished every thing in acrylic stucco and yes it looks a bit like an old spanish court yard. The problem is that stuccos are sand based so you get a pebble texture.

To do yours right, I suspect you would have to look for a clay/lime plaster based finish, similar to what some of the earth/ straw bale folks use. These finishes finish smooth such that you would get a slight reflection off them whereas the stucco finish never gets that shine due to the sand.

Quick question.  How can the AC be so different just based on the air handler and the compressors.  I presume the ductwork should all be the same.  I think you would just switch the 2 ton for a 6 ton in cost would be $2k-$3k difference.  Meaning, if you switch the 2 ton with the 4 ton, and then replaced the 2 ton with a 6 ton, I don't see a big price change of $15k to 38k.


The bigger the air handler the bigger the duct work has to be to flow sufficient air over the coils to keep them from freezing up. You can do the same by increasing the air flow (velocity) but that results in a lot of noise as the air rushes through too small a duct system.
Bigger ducts cost more to buy, more to install and often require an extra person when installing. So the duct size is a big part of the cost equation.

Posted By Rafi on 24 Apr 2014 07:26 PM

Hey Rafi - would you mind letting us know what R-value your heating designer used for the ICF when he did the heat loss/gain calc's ?

Don't know but I've sent him that question. But I can tell you, what a Nudura employee from Canada told me when I've called them out of desperation. He (I can give you his email address sending to you in private if you like) said that R-value should be doubled, R40, cut air changers by half, for example if you usually take 0.4, take 0.2 for ICF walls, the mechanical system should be at 40% less than usual. These were notes I've kept. But you probably also should know that we will have a great insulation for the roof and really great windows from Europe (that was something we wanted to have from the first thought when building our own custom home - I am originally from Europe and it's something I am missing most here in the US).

Thanks Rafi - here in Alberta Canada, Designers, that understand ICF, will use R50 for the heatloss portion of the walls. In my own house, this has proven to be a conservative number and I am very happy with the results. But we are in a heating dominated climate, so I'm interested in what would be used in an area that also has a high cooling demand.