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Has anyone built an iCF home using Durisol blocks?
Last Post 29 Nov 2017 06:00 PM by Athanasios. 23 Replies.
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Pascalli2
 New Member
 Posts:9
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| 05 Jan 2017 12:32 AM |
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We just moved in this October. I haven't got the electric meter hooked up yet, though, so I can't tell you anything about the utility bills. Three stories total - basement plus two above ground. Each is about 1,250 square feet. It is -15 celsius outside right now as I write this, and I am comfortable in my t-shirt, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything until I see how much electricity it is taking to keep me comfortable. I am heating exclusively with radiant, using a 5 ton air-to-water heat pump and a backup 8kW boiler. The heat pump has been malfunctioning since we installed it, unfortunately. Even though it is carrying some of the load, it's not running at full capacity and a lot of the work is done by the boiler. I feel like the boiler would be able to keep us at a livable, though slightly cool, temperature even without the heat pump, but it would be pretty expensive and running most of the time. Other non energy-efficiency related aspects of the Durisol home - I am very happy with the deep window sills, and glad I went with outie windows. Our son loves to climb up on the living room window sill and build a fort. If you are digging into costs, be prepared to run into extra costs to accommodate the Durisol every step of the way - not just the extra material and labor for the actual building shell, but also extra for finishing, accounting for not 100% level walls, etc. A little more noise makes it into the building than I had expected, but overall outside noises are not intrusive. |
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PARAHOMES
 Basic Member
 Posts:199
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| 05 Jan 2017 06:01 AM |
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I'm late to the party. Martin Holladay was entertaining. I think it's safe to say at least 90% of the foam products that he sells and is sponsored by to push w/kickbacks has not been "hot box tested" per above. As a matter of fact, the majority of building products can't afford to hot box test and are not. He picks and chooses which ones have to meet those requirements.
I've been a Project Engineer team lead in high tech multi-million dollar test labs including hot box, shaker(earthquakes), fungi, testing, structural test, assembly/material properties, fault tree analysis, in more funded industries, wrote test plans and final test reports. The ones I've read in this industry like Oak Ridge wall assys lacked funds to be conclusive, the same in-conclusives he points to above. The best reason to fund such expensive testing is to pre-determine life cycles( mean time to failure/repair/replace) for new designs from fatigue (environmental, structural) again, most products lack. Then he goes on to point to 1-3 dimensional thermal bridging analysis (eg> Using Therm, WUFI performs best not Therm) that is not performed on most of the products he promotes today and seen by the lack of both in his Q&A & Blogs. I'm willing to bet Holladay has never ran one of these CFD models as of currently in his life nor is capable of it. Hot box of a wall assy or product is a start, but it takes major expensive reality field testing, preferable globally, back calibrating the model(S) usually CFD & Finite Element, and long life cycles(decades) of developing empirical data from both by qualified cert and test engineers many times a team of them to result in an accurate usable model or emperical data. Last I checked Martin has no practical experience at any of this enough to advise. He's a x_framer that does alot of reading and writing throwing around alot of big words he does not fully understand and lacks practical experience in. I wouldn't consider him a "building scientist" how he ever obtained that title as an editor writer shows how screwed up this industry is. He may have surrounded himself by some, offering advertising on his site in exchange for knowledge and experience, but, he is not one. Be careful what you read on GBA. I think you made a solid choice with Durisol. Faswall another. My understanding is they use a cellulose aggregate infused with MGO/Portland/Pozzolan/Clay hybrid binders. The binders have essentially 100% saturated the cellulose or "petrified" it like petrified wood they have a patent on. The key is 100% saturation.....The same can be done with hemp and MGO or close. It is also done with carbon graphite, pressure/temp infusion of strands placed by CNC head with a phenol resign binder, yields high strength-to-weight used on todays more advanced auto/aircraft stealth fighters/bombers.
Georoge Swanson & Associates, Austin TX, degreed experienced engineers/chemist, have alot of experience with it, more of an "expert" than Holladay by far. I went there to see one of his builds I can't find many of this nature Martin did. He had used a non painted Dragon MAG board over it that was holding up well after a couple years. Time will tell if the MGO leaches and fasteners corrode would be the biggest risk especially in humid climates like Austin. If any hot box test were to be conducted Martin failed to mention on Durisol it would be MGO leaching and corrosion Durisol I'm sure by now has under control below you will find that was done in part long ago no need to waste anymore $$$. The others have been time tested for centuries far longer than foams: I'm also willing to bet Martin has never been on an integrated product design team like Durisol and the engineers and trades there don't need his help or test plan. https://www.google.com/patents/US8603237
In the end, you have much higher properties than foam. MGO and these composites are known for high compression and other mechanical properties, low thermal bridging, fire & smoke resistant, and long list of benefits including chemical foam does not have as seen by reports on Premiers website and some of which are being realized above, including a healthier building, not sick, as we are seeing more of today with foam designs. George and Chemist at Premier have a fastener installation guide.
It may cost more but in the end a much better vapor breathable intert assy. Add a natural plaster & stucco hard to beat. No, you won't find it and alot of better natural products, some you can find in your back yard or local quarries, farmers, being pushed on GBA or alot of "green" sites they can't profit from. Alot of these superior products they hide have been time tested by big universities and labs to the extent funding allowed. In addition, Georges excellent book "Breathable Walls" flooded by centuries of engineering, field, and test data including Duriwall and Faswall.
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Watergirl
 New Member
 Posts:2
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| 17 Nov 2017 10:53 PM |
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Hi folks, I'm late to this thread, but as a 3-time owner/builder who has used a "foam" ICF once and Durisol twice, thought I'd offer my nickel's worth (we don't have pennies in Canada now).  I initially moved to Durisol for ease of building. I simply could manage the block easier than the foam panels, despite the weight. First Durisol house was 2900 sq. ft. I used the 14" block and sealed the exterior with 2" of closed cell foam. Exterior was stone. It was an inefficient design in that there was a large roof area. Efficient in that it was passive solar. What I found was that the Durisol house provided a much better living envelope than the foam ICF. Due I believe to the offset insulation (e.g. all on the outer side), the house was much easier to heat than the foam ICF. Temperature swings were also much narrower and more gradual. The foam ICF house required a/c from the get-go; the Durisol not until 2 years later and then ONLY for humidity reduction. That house was on the water. Humidity would rise to 70%+, but the temp in the hottest weeks never hit 80F. I might add that a Panasonic mini-split with one head, and set to the lowest setting adequately reduced the humidity everywhere. My propane consumption (heat, DHW, cooking, clothes drying) for the first YEAR totaled $185.00. Part of this was the design and site orientation as well as my occasional use of a masonry heater I know, but those wouldn't have accounted for all of it. I'm now onto the second Durisol house. Different design and about 1/3 smaller. Still using 14" block. I have done two things differently. 1. As the block width can vary by 1/8-3/16" or so, I have aligned the interior walls to facilitate drywall placement. I'm foaming the exterior, so the variance is not an issue there. 2. I've cut and sleeved openings (septic, hydro, propane, cable, etc.) in the wall before pour. Still hate the mess that comes from cutting the outlet boxes on the exterior wall (required by the Ontario Building Code), but will live with it. Tech support is excellent and fast. Can't say enough good things about Vipul Acharya, the CEO. One note: Durisol is also known as Nexcem. |
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Athanasios
 New Member
 Posts:1
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| 29 Nov 2017 06:00 PM |
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Watergirl,
Thanks for sharing your experience. We're looking at constructing a smaller waterfront cottage (not likely to be heated year round). Slab on grade (likely with footings down to frostline although apparently OBC doesn't require this and simple thickened perimeter would suffice) with durisol walls. I wasn't intending on sprayfoaming the exterior but simply applying tyvek and cladding with board and batten.
I would line up the interior blocks (vs the exterior) for aesthetic purposes and leave the durisol wall exposed (no plaster, no drywall) and use metal conduit electrical.
The interior would be a somewhat minimalist aesthetic with polished concrete slab floor, exposed durisol interior wall and drywall only in the ceiling.
Curious whether you see any issues with this wall profile based on your experience. I've spoken with the manufacturer and they maintain an interior finish isn't required by OBC standards but I'm interested in getting another opinion.
Thanks for your insight.
T
PS-do you have your own building firm? If so could I contact you outside of this forum? |
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