I am getting quotes for cement stucco over an ICF structure built with QuadLock. The local stucco guys all want to apply building paper before the wire, but Douglas Bennion, technical manager at QuadLock tells me that it is not necessary, his comment, emailed to me reads: "

"  “Mass” (concrete) walls are exempt by code from a “secondary weather barrier”, so the stucco people that you are speaking with are only familiar with wood-framed structures. My read of the code (Part 9, Secton 9.27) is that secondary weather barrier is required for all wood and other framed structures, but mass walls are thrown over to Part 3 of the code (commercial buildings.  "

Since QuadLock is a BC, Canada company and the building in question is in BC, I can't understand why the stucco guys are insisting on the paper.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks

Colin
Osoyoos
BC

Posted By colinmcc on 22 Jun 2015 07:55 PM
I am getting quotes for cement stucco over an ICF structure built with QuadLock. The local stucco guys all want to apply building paper before the wire, but Douglas Bennion, technical manager at QuadLock tells me that it is not necessary, his comment, emailed to me reads: "

"  “Mass” (concrete) walls are exempt by code from a “secondary weather barrier”, so the stucco people that you are speaking with are only familiar with wood-framed structures. My read of the code (Part 9, Secton 9.27) is that secondary weather barrier is required for all wood and other framed structures, but mass walls are thrown over to Part 3 of the code (commercial buildings.  "

Since QuadLock is a BC, Canada company and the building in question is in BC, I can't understand why the stucco guys are insisting on the paper.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks

Colin
Osoyoos
BC

QuadLock is 100% correct. There is absolutely no need to put building paper/tar paper onto the ICF. The stucco can be applied directly to the EPS foam. The actual building paper (asphalt impregnated paper) can damage the EPS foam if it contains petroleum by-products in it. Some papers contain petroleum by-products and petroleum + EPS = melted or damaged EPS.

The stucco guys are not familiar with ICF and they are approaching it as a wood-frame structure with rigid foam exterior, in which a building wrap must be used to protect the wood. Not necessary with ICF/concrete.

Hopefully the stucco crew is willing to acquiesce, if not, find a different stucco crew. Ideally using synthetic stucco that does not require a wire mesh is better since you will do less damage to the EPS foam. Wire mesh requires drilling or stapling into the ICF every so often and this can end up damaging the EPS which is your R-Value. Using a stucco that utilizes fiberglass mesh or some type of mesh that doesn't require physically screwing, nailing or stapling into the ICF is better. Some crews really can damage the exterior EPS when they go crazy with stapling and screwing the wire mesh.

I went traditional stucco over my ICF, I have woodpeckers, and wanted the additional strength. The woodpeckers tend to beat holes in EIFS around here, they seem to like the hollow sound. I also had an issue with not finding anyone with ICF experience, however I was able to find someone who was willing to admit the blind spot and we were able to figure it out between us. We went with a 1 inch mesh with 1.25 inch screws with the Windlock washers, went up easy, and so far it has held up very well. The only issue I had is the crew showed up with drywall screws, I took the screws away from them, set them to getting other parts of the job done, and went out to get the correct fasteners. That is the issue with subs, they will not always have all the information, when the contractor told them to pick up some screws they got the cheapest thing they could, and with the contractor running multiple jobs someone has to check on the subs. Otherwise you could be a couple of days in before a problem gets discovered, if not years later in my case when I started getting rust spots.

Posted By dave111 on 23 Jun 2015 08:48 AM
I went traditional stucco over my ICF, I have woodpeckers, and wanted the additional strength. The woodpeckers tend to beat holes in EIFS around here, they seem to like the hollow sound. 

Depends on the EIFS. Not all synthetic stucco's are equal.

Conventional or traditional stucco has a psi rating of around 500-1,000 psi (avg) depending on the mix. The conventional 3-coat stucco they use out here crumbles if you try and put a screw into it.

Synthetic one-coat stucco's like StuccoMax are around 3,500 psi but can achieve ballistic bullet-proof properties (9,000+ psi) when applied thicker with 2 or more layers of fiberglass mesh.

I am building with QuadLock as well in Burnaby, BC and the city's chief inspector insists that I must have building paper applied to ICF before applying the exterior siding.

Posted By M. S. on 07 Apr 2016 06:39 PM
I am building with QuadLock as well in Burnaby, BC and the city's chief inspector insists that I must have building paper applied to ICF before applying the exterior siding.

US Building Code is different than BC/Canadian Code.

Are you applying vinyl, wood or aluminum siding?

If they mandate it, you really can't fight them on it since they control the code and the permits. Just use something that is NOT asphalt/petroleum based. Tyvek or SIGA housewraps will work since they don't contain petroleum.

We use acrylic stucco products that are applied directly to the EPS. Acrylic stucco contracts/expands at same rate as EPS. This is a great benefit in climates like Rogue River OR where we often see 40-50F daily temperature variation. You spread an initial coat, place fiber mesh while still wet, spread another coat and then spread finish coat with desired texture. Most of these products are rated for ground contact. ICF is likely the best building assembly to apply stucco and stucco is likely the most durable exterior finish. We also like fiber cement products if a more conventional exterior siding look is desired.

Colin - unrelated question: did you use quaddeck for roof/floors?