Has anyone built, or familiar with a project that was built with the relatively new Nudura PLUS forms?

http://www.nudura.com/divisions/nudura-products/plus-series

They are similar to traditional Nudura forms but have significant additional insulation on one side of the form.

Curious to hear any lessons learned!

Thanks in Advance!

Corey..

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I'm thinking these things are Unicorns!

:-)

cbryndal, I've used them a number of times -- and I sell them occasionally - mostly the insert style (rather than the thick on one side style). We have a project going right now (commercial) that is using them for architectural (esthetic) reasons. I'm not a big fan of using them for energy efficiency unless your in Canada or north. They do add R-value of course but since you are starting with a continuous R-23+ already you are looking at diminishing return in my opinion and might be better off taking the extra dollars and improving your windows or doors a bit. Regards

Hey TexasICF - thanks, so you've actually use them? Did you use the ones where the extra material is part of one side of the wall? ......or just the inserts? Yup, I'm in a cold, Alpine environment. Thx!

I distribute Nudura in Texas. I have used the inserts but not the extra material on one-side version. Incidentally, several jobs going right now with the one-sided form (which has exposed concrete on one or both sides). What is your outside finish? Despite the extra labor, I usually recommend the inserts over the other because the furring strip remains 5/8" from the outside surface for attachment of brick ties etc. If you are using brick - I don't think you want the cantilever through the thick foam (just a thought).

Nudura adds extra insulation by laminating a board to the outside of the standard form. This leaves the "stud" about 3" deep and it can be difficult to find with a screw when attaching your finish materials. Polycrete, which is a 2' x 8' block makes a full sized (2' x 8') insert called R-Stak. It takes about 30 seconds per block to install each 16 sqft insert. With a supplemental insulation insert, the fastening stud stays an inch from the outside surface, and it's position is marked on the outside surface of the form. The downside is that the Polycrete form is not readily available west of the Mississippi.

The location is 9400' above sea level. Alpine climate, small home, and the project would have a full/real brick wall outside of it. I had found some metal ties that could be inserted in the blocks during stacking for brick attachment and stabilization with a air-space between the brick and foam. I was considering using 6" + 2 5/8 Plus forms(pls 2 5/8 on the inside) - the version with the external/laminated foam with 8" concrete cores. (I know, it's a lot of mud. 350lbs/sq-ft of snow load makes ya think of beefy walls)

Guess I'm curious if the thicker, laminated forms presented any challenges at corners, at windows or door penetrations, etc...

Are the laminated Plus forms manufactured with enough accuracy that they mate together properly?

Is there any risk of the lamination failing after being encapsulated in a wall?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

You should look at a product like Hobbs or TF. It's very easy to upgrade the thickness of the foam without adding to the inset of the webs, plus they are quicker to build and less waste.

I have used both Nudura Inserts and the Plus-Series forms (with thicker foam laminated to one side). Both products perform well, although expect a little extra time to install vs the standard Nudura forms. The inserts will obviously take more time to install (although they go in fairly quick and easy). The thicker forms basically snap together like the regular product, but occasionally some extra low-e foam/rasping is required to fit properly.

If you have a stucco finish (or the wall will be below grade), I would use the Plus-Series forms. If you need to mechanically fasten your exterior finish (eg, siding), then use the inserts. This will keep the fastening strips near the surface. Both these product have yielded high quality finished products.

smartwall - thanks, I took a look at the Hobbs. Interesting concept for sure!

ICFBdr - thanks, glad to hear they exist! I'm not considering a combination of the two. Taking a PLUS form with 6" of outside insulation and a 12" core opening and placing 6" of insert in the opening. That would leave a 6" concrete core for the walls. The building is small 20x40', and planned as an off-grid building. So the simplicity and extra insulation should net some gains. It would be external lined with brick, and the brick ties would be wire placed through the PLUS forms and anchored to the nailing strips / webs.

Thanks!

That's the point of the two verticals that I suggested the system stays the same but you just add thicker foam as needed nothing extra to play with. You would use the 12" rails with 6" of foam on either side. The rails would be 1" below the surface. I did one with 4" of foam on either side and a 6" core. We used recycled foam at .37 cents per sq ft so it was really cost efficient